flyguy81

My kids are elementary school age...so I've got roughly 15 years until the youngest is off to college. I'll likely be senior enough to get summer vacation before they leave...at some point. Right now I'm getting their fall break off. I get seniority has it's perks but no reason someone junior to me should get a week in summer because a senior guy feels like trading with them. I'd leave the system as is if you could devise a globally based seniority trading system (bases don't matter since after the award you can trade with whomever you want)

SlipKid

Unbelievable. You're willing to give up amazing QOL for the rest of your career for the slight chance that you'll be awarded one summer week in the next 6 years.......

You have a far better chance of actually getting a summer week under the current system than you will under either of the choices we're voting on.



So why, exactly, are you voting to screw up the entire system?

The current choices are unlikely to make a positive difference for you short term, and will definitely harm you, big time, in the long run.

As I said above, you will be far less likely to actually get a summer week with either of the choices we're voting on.

ZapBrannigan

What you aren’t understanding is that all votes are personal. Pilots with kids at home just want the chance, seniority permitting, to take one lousy week of vacation in the summer.

You aren’t empathizing with them. You aren’t understanding where they are coming from. Your only response is “you’ll be senior someday, then you’ll see.”

I’m Sorry. You can’t expect me to vote to preserve this scheme for you when you can’t even acknowledge that a problem exists from my perspective.

I’m not doing anything to you. I only have one vote. The other 8998 pilots will ultimately make this decision. I just wanted you to understand where I was coming from, even if we don’t agree on the choices before us.


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SlipKid

Do you think you're the only pilot with kids at home and can't get vacation during their breaks? I have 2 kids, and was exactly where you are right now, and made do, like every other pilot here. Given the current choices, I would not have changed a thing, because, after 7 airlines, I understand and more importantly, accept how seniority works, regardless of my particular domestic situation.

Sorry I wasn't as obviously sympathetic to your plight as you'd have liked me to be. I truly feel bad that a guy that has been here less than 4 years can't get everything he wants.

You're hurting yourself far more than you're hurting me by voting one week per round. What "problem" haven't I acknowledged?

Actually, by voting one week per round, you are "doing" something to me, not to mention yourself and anyone else that's gonna be here more than a few years.

LOL... We won't even get HALF of them to vote on this. This is up to a few vocal folks, fostering an agenda that benefits them.


Ditto. You'll be here long after I'm retired, so please consider the harm you're doing to both of our careers before voting to give away the store.

ZapBrannigan

I give up. Call your rep. They sent out the choices. All I’m going to do is vote.


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RJSAviator76

If change voters get their way? Not one... because the rest of the US airline world goes by seniority, and not by feelings and/or someone's idea of "fairness."

Compare a 7th year FO with 3 weeks of vacation and a 2nd year FO with 2 weeks. 7th year FO gets to bid on his 3rd week after 2nd FO chose both of his. If you think that doesn't violate seniority order, I don't know what to tell you.

Sorry man, love your posts, but I don't think you couldn't be any more wrong about this along with all of you option 1 and 3 voters. Your idea of dealing with a headache seems to involve a gun to your head.

We had a pure seniority option where everyone could bid their weeks in one go and allow unlimited trading as well. If the change voters actually cared about seniority, then Option 7 (one round - unlimited trading) would have won hands down as that is the option that is literally pure seniority order. But honoring seniority is clearly not the intent of the change voters... hence the pure seniority option getting only 6.25% of the vote.

flyguy81

If you weren't bidding a block, the 7 yr guy would be bidding his 3rd week after the 2nd yr guy bids his 2nd and final week. *gasp*

That's kinda why there's 5 rounds.

RJSAviator76

Except a 7th year guy can *choose* to block bid all his weeks in a row as it stands now... something he definitely won’t be able to do if this goes through.

e6bpilot

Whatever man. I voted. I suggest you do too. We disagree on the fundamentals of what seniority gets you. I want to protect seniority too, but not at the expense of the rest of the group. I guess that’s why the union is a democracy and not an oligarchy. You are insinuating that the 50 percent or so that bothered to vote are too stupid to understand what they are doing. I guess we will see.

RJSAviator76

I voted too. I don’t think our pilot group is stupid, but I do think that many of us tend to be somewhat myopic and easily persuaded by short term gains while overlooking the long term implications.