TexasBigJet

Hello everyone! I feel like I won the lottery, and was given CJOs for WN and AA (CJOs given in October). Both companies have domiciles in the Dallas area (where I want to be), but am having a really difficult decision picking where I want to spend the next 30 years. I really had a great time interacting with folks at the WN interview, and think the culture fits my personality a little better. I also know that WN is a more stable company than AA, and has a better contract than AA. My issue is that I’m not sure I want to give up the opportunity to fly widebody and long-haul international someday (right now it’s looking like 3-5 years for widebody FO at AA and 15 years for widebody CA). Narrowbody CA at AA is 5-6 years, where I hear it’s about 8-10 for CA upgrade at WN. In doing some seniority calculations, based on mandatory retirements, in 9 years I’d be in the top 50% of seniority at AA, and within the first 500 at 65 years old. Doing the same math for WN, it would take 15 years to be in the top 50%, and I would be within the first 1700 at 65 years old.

I’m a military guy, and the airline world is a little foreign to me. From what I understand, because WN uses line bidding, that means more opportunity for vacation conflicts (more vacation) or extra pay. Because legacies use PBS, from my understanding setting up conflicts is not possible, but I hear that legacies allow someone to drop trips (I don’t know what the advantage is to that). So in a career would a WN pilot make more and work less than a legacy carrier? I also heard that there is more premium and open time available at WN. Are there any WN guys here that came from a legacy or vice-versa? I really appreciate any input, or any info I’m missing.

Overall here are the pros and cons of each as I currently see it:

WN Pros: Culture, line bidding, work rules, company stability, better domiciles, more pay?, more time off? Open time/Premium Pay?
WN Cons: Less seniority movement than legacies, more time to upgrade, one aircraft fleet and mostly North America flying (I know there is HI and Central America).

AA Pros: Seniority movement, upgrade time, diversity of flying (widebody international and long haul)
AA Cons: Company culture, poor contract, management, company stability, more time away for less pay?

Oh, and my stats are:
Time: 2900 Total Time, 2700 Turbine, 1600 Turbine PIC, 1400 IP, Evaluator Pilot (Check Airman), 737 Type, Master’s Degree, various courses such as safety school, and volunteer work. I am a military pilot.

Thanks again!

ROFF

Culture?

This should be interesting.

You forgot SWAG. Does AA have SWAG?

I wish I could cash in some of my SWAG points for some seniority. Anyone??

Don’t get me wrong, I truly enjoy it here. But your pros listed for AA are absolute gold in the airline industry.

Peacock

Do you have class dates with each? SWA has been cancelling new hire classes and with the recent news about Boeing halting production of the MAX, it could be a while.

TexasBigJet

I do have a class date for both. WN said to expect a class in February. Thanks!

Peacock

I have no inside knowledge but that’s not a sure thing. They cancelled a lot of classes already because of the MAX debacle. If it’s not returning soon I don’t see why they’d reverse course and start hiring again

at6d

Put the culture for both at the end and leave that at the interview.

Can a WN pilot make more? Maybe sometimes. Work less? Hell no. I have two trips this month with five leg days.

Until the MAX comes back, premium is gone. Also, I’ve been here four years and premium is nothing to be counted on in my seniority.

AA culture...I was burned out in the lost decade and will hold my criticism of the old AMR ways.

You are correct with line bidding. I had all of October off and was credited over 90.

Your family comes first—you have two very good choices to make. Sounds like you want the big planes.

Best of luck and thanks for your service. See you on a WN jumpseat I’m sure.

Zard

Culture is dead unless you work in the puzzle palace and have all the time in the world to go mainline koolaid at the next deck party. Try paying your mortgage with culture and lemme know how that works out. Go wherever you're gonna have the best seniority as fast as possible. hint: that ain't southwest, especially with the max debacle.

The only downsides I can see to AA is the debt on their books and PBS. They have enough retirements that you'll be moving up quickly and out of the furlough zone relatively rapidly. Faster upgrade, bigger airplanes.

All things being equal, you'll do fine either place. I'm proud of where I work, but only inasmuch as it took me a ton of hard work for a decade and a half to get there. I don't really care who I work for as long as the checks don't bounce and they don't call me on my days off.

FleetSnarl

Culture? Lol. Ba ha ha haaaaa. Whatever culture WN had has gone the way of horse-driven carriages and family Saturday evenings gathered around the radio.

Line bidding may or may not still be around after C2020. We, along with Alaska, are the last airlines with it. That means the company will have strong leverage to attain it OR (more likely) use it as leverage to keep our contract on the lagging side of things.

Wide body international is nice. That is appealing. After more than a decade, the 737 and the Lubbocks, Albuquerques, and Grand Rapids, etc of this world after 3 to 5 leg days ad nauseum forever get a tad old.

The kind of seniority movement you’re talking about also protects you from furlough (in addition to being helpful for quality of life and upgrade).

But American sucks, so go to SWA.

ROFF

Wait,

Which one has the hottest flight attendants?

And I mean literally.

“It’s hot back here! Can you cool it off??”

senecacaptain

CJO in October for a Feb class ?