Grumpyaviator

I wonder if Force Majeure provides an opportunity for the company to renege on its VSP obligations, since using BK doesn’t seem possible at this point considering the company’s strong cash position. That would be truly dastardly, but at this point I wouldn’t put anything past the BoD and FH.

hoover

in an article by CNBC sw stated that they sent out the notices now because some states require a 90 day notice. It's still more than a 90 day notice.

Lewbronski

For management to be able to exercise force majeure, there must be a force majeure clause in the CBA. SWAPA pilots do not currently have a force majeure clause in our CBA. Therefore, at SWA, management cannot currently exercise any kind of force majeure provisions.

Hence, the push from management to insert a force majeure clause into our contract by insisting that any concessions package include the "unforeseen or catastrophic circumstances" language. If they were able to achieve that, then they could exercise force majeure on us. If we were stupid enough to agree to allowing management to install a force majeure clause into our contract, we would deserve whatever bad things we get. The force majeure language the company is proposing would create a general purpose loophole to the CBA big enough to drive a freight train through.

Just as FordHarrison is recommending in the helpful circular they published (and I posted earlier on this thread), SWA management is attempting to remedy the absence of a force majeure clause in our CBA by ensuring that, from now on, our CBA does have a force majeure clause so that their hands will not be tied by our CBA.

And no, I do not believe that if management achieved a force majeure clause in our CBA that it would apply to our VSP pilots since they are no longer in our pilot group, no longer employed by SWA, and are operating under their own individual contracts they signed with the company that established the terms of their VSP.

at6d

Baghdad Bob has apparently written the latest email. “There is no force majeur clause.”

bondjamesbond

“But on closer analysis, Lorenzo’s promises proved a sham, for he had, in every case, left himself a loophole. Past experience suggested that if a loophole existed, Lorenzo would use it.”.

-Flying the Line Volume II.

Not saying GK is a union-buster on the level of Frankie Smooth Talk, just that it’s a good idea to learn from those who have gone before.

Crockrocket95

What you didn't see is that he had to work 160 TFP (20 days) to get that. Apples to Apples the Widebody guys make more and work less I bet.

nene

So if nobody is minding the business from a holistic view, it is doomed to fail. Ask UAL how the ESOP worked out.

My bigger point is basically mgmt manages, labor works. With a CBA, they can't change the current conditions unless either the pilots agree or BK court imposes changes for the survival of the company. Some leaders/CEO's see value in taking care of employees as much as possible, realizing that the "investment" will likely come back in performance, but others just look as the #s and aren't as concerned about "long term" because they don't plan to be here then anyway.

Kind of like D1 NCAA football coaches, paid really well if you win, paid really well to leave if you don't.

It's Mgmt's job to figure out how to move bodies and make money with the lowest labor costs possible, without sacrificing safety, customer service, and the long term health of the company.

Sounds like mgmt decided to make one more push for labor costs reductions (never let a crisis go to waste) before a potential restoration of traffic and/or a govt handout takes place.

So many take it personal. SWA is not the scrappy little domestic carrier that flies low fare pax from outlying city to outlying city anymore. It's a large corporation that counts costs and revenues in the $Billions.

Hopefully the union can navigate this without giving wrecking the CBA and requiring any furloughs.

rightseat

^^^^THIS^^^^

How can you go to the government and ask for more money when you have not furloughed or threatened to do so. I pray I am right, but I sincerely doubt there will be furloughs. Recovery is around the corner and the chances of more government help has a strong chance within 45 days in my opinion.

Loon

yeah, but if you live at base, 160 tfp’s really isn’t hard to obtain. As far as salaries, I can think of 10 people off the top of my head that grossed over 500k, and I know 2 personally that made over 600k in 2018. If you live at base, it is(or used to be-COVID) like shooting fish in a barrel.

Lewbronski

What you’re saying might be true. I personally don’t know anyone who pulled in that much money. I’ve heard this sort of thing since I’ve been at SWA. Again, I don’t doubt there are people who’ve been able to make that happen. I just don’t think it’s anywhere near as easy to make happen as some people would like everyone to believe. It seems like there’s an ego element involved with the people who like to tell others about how they made $500k or $600k or $700k last year. It allows them to feel smarter and better. What they don’t tell you is how many days they were out flying and/or on the hook, and how many hours a day they spend on the computer. It’s cool that they make a lot of money. It’s just kinda disingenuous to suggest that to do so is like “shooting fish in a barrel”.

I live in base and am very senior. It has never been like “shooting fish in a barrel” for me to obtain a high TFP total in a month. I have to either spend a lot of time on the computer and/or get lucky. No matter what, it takes a lot of days at work to run up a high TFP total.

And since they began running up the pilot to aircraft ratio, it has become more and more difficult to score premium trips making it that much more difficult to make much money.