They may have sweetened the pot since you last interviewed.

I interviewed at the beginning of the month, haven't heard back. My application is still open. But hey, I'll take what I can get! If I get the job I'll be commuting, so not paying out of pocket for a hotel is $$$$.

FCTI training details
 

Agreed 100%

Can recent hires share their experiences as it relates to: How the FCTI training is done? duration? sequence and how easy or difficult it is to complete the training and start as an instructor? Thankx

You’d need your head examined to even consider this job. They are hiring new instructors as fast as they can get them even at that rate almost 1/2 quit before completing training once they see the reality of the job.

If you have any dreams of moving to the line it is actually harder to get hired as an instructor because they can’t afford to let you go. If you have a medical this job is a career ENDER!! I’m sure in the interviews they are touting how many instructors they’ve recently hire as FO’s. What they won’t say is those instructors were giving seniority numbers but won’t be allowed a class date for nearly 6 months maybe longer if they don’t stop bleeding instructors. What that means is they effectively take a pay cut because now they are paid under SWAPAs CBA but they can’t fly. That leaves them at training pay until they get a class and finish IOE. Because SWAPAs CBA doesn’t cover that class and craft they are essentially on their own with no support. Many have already accepted class dates at other carriers.

This is just one example of SWA warrior spirit at work within the their leadership ranks. Screw over whoever you have to to make yourself look good. SWA has some incredible Chief pilots and they have done a tremendous job insulating line pilots from the idiocracy that is HDQ.

The reality is SWa doesn’t have 16B they have somewhere in the neighborhood of $4B. Yes that’s better on paper than the rest but what that doesn’t account for is the technology debt, infrastructure, real estate, rewards program equity amongst other assets. The company leadership has run the airlines like a mom and pop shop and failed to invest in any infrastructure. They doubled down on the MAX not because it was the right choice but because it was the ONLY choice. There simply was no way the company could operate a different airframe without buying an entire airline with scheduling software , maintenance software and hardware, training, actually writing an FOM and AOM that don’t rely on RBFs 3 times a week and a host of other issue “under the wing”.

As for commuting to be an instructor? 1. Read the contract. 2. Talk to someone that works there. 3. Kiss your QOL goodbye. I told you some just doesn’t quite some it up.

Probably the best way to sum up what you can expect working as an instructor for SWA is in the past year over 18 SWA employees have left for FSI or CAE. That should speak volumes.

As someone considering an instructor position I am curious about your reply. Are you or have you worked in the training department? As a non-commuting, non right seat seeking instructor what is going to make me want to quit during training?

Just looking for info before I make the jump.


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This post should be stickied and be required reading for any applicant to a flight ops position at SWA. Well said.

You get what you pay for. Eventually, the only instructors left at swa are going to be the cast offs that can't get hired anywhere else unless the company comes hat in hand to both the sim instructors union and SWAPA and works out a deal.

I think it's pretty telling to have all these posts coming out like this one. Full disclosure, one of "these posts coming out like this one" was from me, but I find it fascinating to hear that it's not just line pilots who are receiving the brunt of the insanity of flight ops hiring right now.

The depth of their ineptitude seems to know no bounds. It's like nobody has any clue what's going on in the industry as a whole, and even fewer clues the alarmingly uncompetitive position they're putting us in.

this is perfect. We are going to throw some deck parties and celebrate our 50th anniversary while everyone else is buying airplanes, hiring pilots, and aggressively going after market share. Neat.

Yup. This pretty much sums up SWA. For those of you on the outside looking in, none of that post is inaccurate or exaggerated.

Everything everyone else said. Insightful post to be heeded by any SWA hire.

I'm a line guy and was asked to be a project pilot, basically someone who works in DAL on office stuff. Once I was told the particulars I politely declined. I would have had to commute and the days worked for pay was no where worth it for me.
maybe if I lived in DAL and didnt mind working more days I'd think about it. If the instructor position is similar there is no way I'd commute to it. I'd only consider it if I lived there and had no way to continue flying or was retired and wanted to get out of the house.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...545958f944.jpg


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^^^^^^ God, let’s hope so. THE single best leverage we could have for a much improved contract.

I’ve been keeping an eye on our list for the past few weeks and we are losing one pilot to attrition for every retirement. Those numbers will undoubtedly go up as the new hire classes populate the list and some leave for other carriers.

Good stuff. Keep us posted.

In the last 4 weeks, 13 pilots left, less than half retirements.

Since 1 Jan, 5 pilots left, only 1 retirement.

When you say left are you counting deaths or just going to other airlines?
We have had 3 pilot deaths since Dec 23.

I’m just counting pilots not on our list. I have no way of knowing where pilots are going other than the fact they aren’t on the list anymore. I was aware of only 1 death in December, that’s a bummer though about the others.

As I former SWA FCTI, I can tell you morale in Lead Ops building ain't all that great. Leadership not so good either. Many are leaving, and I'm not just talking about to the line. Also, understand that training leadership is different than flight ops training and standards leadership.

Mgt. talks the talk, "thank you for all you do," but no contract, only short term "fixes." Much has been offered and suggested, but the company doesn't really care all that much. They think they can ride this pilot hiring push out.

It's an OK job if you don't have a medical or are over 65, or have to commute. Benefits are pretty good. FAs make more money, working the same days.

However, pay is no where near commiserate with what the company is willing to pay check-airman and FOs to come to the training center to the job that FCTIs do. CKAs are paid at least 5X what AQP-Vs are to do MOs. Both have check-airman letters and went through the same (excellent) training to get said letters. Line pilots are limited on what they can teach or events they can administer in the training center. Some line pilots were former FCTIs and came back to teach some. It works well for them!

Unfortunately, too many companies, of all kinds, do NOT respect the instructors they hire. SWA is one of them.

HT


That really hurts to hear. The instructors in the training center have always been top notch and awesome to be around. I guess this place likes to waste the money on deck parties and paying dispatch way to much . Both are subpar and a waste of money.

Good info in this thread, thanks to those who posted.

My question is for any recent Instructor hires, (if any are on here) what was your training schedule? I know 3 weeks for initial type training but after that? I’m trying to decide how to work moving to Dallas into the mix.


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Ground school is about 3 1/2 weeks. Then 2 weeks of Sim (including the lofts). Now that’s what a pilot would get. What you will probably get is2 weeks of ground, then “we don’t have an instructor available for your systems IPT so just hangout and self study”. Eventually they’ll get you done with ground school and if your VERY luck they”ll get you into a sim in a week or two. (Pilots will get a day off before sim 1. You’ll be at the mercy of scheduling). Last fall they send 3 instructors home without pay for 3 weeks between ground and sim. That decision was reversed and they all were eventually paid but complete BS that the company thought that was acceptable. 1 of the 3 never returned.

Best case if you get through with 0 delays it’s 6 weeks from day of of ground to finishing up you last Loft. Usually after that you’ll get a few days/week before Ca upgrade. You can’t really do anything until after CAUG. CAUG will probably be 3 1/2 - 4 weeks. Then you’ll have a professional instructor course (one week mon-fri). After they can get you through BCAT you’ll get your AQP-Override pay. Who knows when that will be BCAT is only offered a few time each year.

I’d be very careful moving for this job. Maybe commute until you decide to bail? If you want to move to DFW there are a TON of better places to instruct and lots of pilot positions. Not trying to burst your bubble but if you are think about moving I’d definitely suggest talking to a few current instructors and at least one or two that commute.

Thank you for the honest reply. That is what I am looking for before I make the jump. I have considered commuting but that sounds brutal.


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Can you get some of the commuting instructors on this forum so we can get their opinions? I will definitely be commuting and I'd like to hear their thoughts.

many thanks for this info, you’ve mentioned “I’d be very careful moving for this job” is it due to the training or actually working as an instructor after the training completion? Appreciate you response.

It’s the schedule, being lied to by management and complete disregard for the JCBA. Here’s a good place to start, ask anyone in management to explain how you are paid. About every third paycheck is wrong.

Schedule: They will give you a schedule on the 24th and on the 2nd you end up with a bunch of days that got dropped and are now ON CALL days. Sounds nice right? Until you realize the “company” interprets this to mean now you are responsible for 18hr duty period. So instead of knowing you had a 0530 brief and you’d be able to pick your kids up from school now you are on the hook for a 0400 - 1800 reassign that finishes at 2000. This is being done intentionally so they have flexibility in the schedule. If you pay attention the event you were scheduled for is still there (uncovered) but now they own you for 3 sim period instead of just one. If they move you from that 0530 brief to a 1330 brief then they’d have to pay you reassignment (1.5 for all 8hrs) by “PARKING” you On Call they don’t but can still move you. This kills your QOL.

You are a salaried worker (as the company sees its). So overtime, holiday, vacation, and reassignment if calculated by taking your monthly salary / monthly hours ETO calculate an hourly rate then multiplying that by 1.5 or 2.0. Then they will subtract your straight pay and add in you overtime, premium etc. They do the same for vacation and sick. It is unbelievable how often it is just flat out wrong. If you catch it usually they will have an excuse. If you keep pushing it most the time they will eventually fix it. Sometimes not. You can file a grievance but many just decide it’s not worth working there any more.

I’d also ask what the turn over has been the last 12 months? They’ve now been hiring for 12 mo this so Covid and VSP are not justifiable excuse for people leaving. There is one answer for the turn over and it is the leadership and culture.

4 years ago this was a great job. It is night and day compared to then and the only reason is the leadership.

I’m not sure where you guys are in your career. If you live in Dallas AND you have some Boeing experience AND you’re looking to stay busy in retirement I could see someone doing this job for a few years for benefits for a younger spouse or kids before retiring.

If you have a medical this job will set your career back a decade. Go look at JetBlue they’ll give you a seniority number as an instructor

If you don’t have a medical look at American where they’ll actually pay you for the work you do. There has been a mass exodus of instructors to FSI and CAE. These are new instructors either some 8-10 year guys.

Also you might want to Google SWAPA / instructors lawsuit.

Good Luck

Can you talk to this point in more detail? My thought was getting a 737 type rating and doing this job for three years would help the resume.

10 days off a month… where’s the throw up emoji?
Positive space commuting
$9117 a month to start
Company Seniority but not Pilot seniority. So if you get lucky enough to be hired after 3 years, you start at the bottom of the pilot seniority list.
401k matched dollar for dollar up to 9.3%, don’t know what % of profit share.
TWU is the union

Straight from a recruiter.

As said above, unless you cant get a medical or your only dream is to instruct in a simulator, there is no real incentives to taking this job if your younger and goal is to fly for a living.

Anyone have interview gouge for this position? Any hypothetical questions? Tell me about a time?

Lonestarcaptain, I really appreciate the information, definitely helps a lot for the new candidates. You think the schedule issue is still the same now especially with so much turnover.

So instructors are starting at higher pay then pilots? I know they are working more days but damn. Positive space something pilot commuters would like. In base should get 100% paid covered parking.

they are still way short on instructors. Everyone is working as much as they want/can

As a instructor do you also get to fly the 737 lines? any expectations on pay increase in future? It looks like an easy way to get into SW but not many liked that path.

fly the lines as a pilot? No. Entirely different employee group, seniority list and union. To date, the company does not want to pay line pilots to instruct in the simulators.

Have to mention the SWAPA lawsuit about how the company hired instructors and placed them on the seniority list thus creating a whole new category. We will see what happens.

Neat idea if they negotiate and make it official. Pilot gets hired, instructs for three years, skips commuting to OAK and reserve and takes their seniority to the line. Great recruiting tool.

What's the spread on that one ?

Pretty unlikely. I was just daydreaming.

Instructors should be line pilots with a few years of experience on the line, like other airlines. I believe that the FCTI should be folded into SWAPA with some sort of fence (smarter people than me can figure this out) and all future FIs should be SWAPA pilots hired from the line.

I agree, though I don't have a problem with retired/medical'd people instructing as well, as long as they have 737 line flying time.