Serious thoughts about leaving.
#101
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2019
Posts: 244
I never worked as much as a reserve line and get to pick the days I want to work. I’ll make over 300k. Plus bidding every vacation week I want that will pay over 50 tip for
each week (two that paid over 60) The minor pay increase is not worth it for a commute across the country.
each week (two that paid over 60) The minor pay increase is not worth it for a commute across the country.
You have worked a lot more days then an average reserve line off for you to do that!! I am not talking about the commute. Everyones commute is different but in days worked for you as a senior FO to do that will work more events then a junior captain in a calender month. We are not talking vacation pay extra. If your saying otherwise I am calling your BS flag. Math does not lie when it comes to numbers. You make it sound like all the guys sitting at the bottom of the captains list haven’t been in your position. Been there done that know what you make and how you make it.
#102
READY TO STRIKE
Joined APC: Jul 2015
Position: 737
Posts: 375
I don’t understand your guys math. A senior FO can make as much as a junior captain BUT WILL WORK MORE FOR IT. Ok let’s take a look at some math:
a 95 tfp reserve line for a captain is equivalent to 136 tfp for a senior FO. I am using MAX 12 year pay for a captain at 245 tfp and 171 tfp for an fo. But let’s say the fo gets a line (cause he is senior) with 21 days off at 95 tfp. Which is a base month. The avg reserve guys are doing today about 125 tfp (that’s with minimum 15 off). So if you take that 245x125 tfp your at 30,625. So for an FO to do that he is going to need 179 tfp. We previously agreed the avg senior line for an FO is 21 days off. So if you take his minimum monthly guarantee of 95 he is going to need 84 tfp EXTRA to make the 179. So even if he gets premium that pays 10 a day (which is very hard to get). He is going to have to work a MINIMUM OF 8 EXTRA DAYS!!! So his 21 off becomes 13 off that’s being gracious and giving him 10 tfp per day of work. I am a very junior captain and I was a very senior FO for a very long time. I can assure you a senior FO can make as much as a junior captain. But he/she will work alot harder for it then a junior captain commuting. This notion that a reserve line just pays 95 is INCORRECT and misleading. You get whatever pays higher. The average reserve lines today are in the 120’s. A year ago even during the height of Covid they were In the 100’s. A 3 day block of reserve pays 18 a 3 day trip pays 19.5. So if he/she gets called out for a 3 day right away their pay increases 1.5 tfp! Most senior FO’s I have come across realize this and hence are taking first available.
a 95 tfp reserve line for a captain is equivalent to 136 tfp for a senior FO. I am using MAX 12 year pay for a captain at 245 tfp and 171 tfp for an fo. But let’s say the fo gets a line (cause he is senior) with 21 days off at 95 tfp. Which is a base month. The avg reserve guys are doing today about 125 tfp (that’s with minimum 15 off). So if you take that 245x125 tfp your at 30,625. So for an FO to do that he is going to need 179 tfp. We previously agreed the avg senior line for an FO is 21 days off. So if you take his minimum monthly guarantee of 95 he is going to need 84 tfp EXTRA to make the 179. So even if he gets premium that pays 10 a day (which is very hard to get). He is going to have to work a MINIMUM OF 8 EXTRA DAYS!!! So his 21 off becomes 13 off that’s being gracious and giving him 10 tfp per day of work. I am a very junior captain and I was a very senior FO for a very long time. I can assure you a senior FO can make as much as a junior captain. But he/she will work alot harder for it then a junior captain commuting. This notion that a reserve line just pays 95 is INCORRECT and misleading. You get whatever pays higher. The average reserve lines today are in the 120’s. A year ago even during the height of Covid they were In the 100’s. A 3 day block of reserve pays 18 a 3 day trip pays 19.5. So if he/she gets called out for a 3 day right away their pay increases 1.5 tfp! Most senior FO’s I have come across realize this and hence are taking first available.
So that's a minimum of 3 days lost to commuting, bringing that captain down to 12 days off, which is less than your 13 days you hypothesized to match a junior captain at 125. I will grant you though that it will require way less thought and living in cwa to get the junior captain pay, since you're just commuting and flying your line. But it is not incorrect to say that you can make just as much in roughly the same days off (one more day off using your numbers and my commuting numbers).
#104
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2010
Position: DOWNGRADE COMPLETE: Thanks Gary. Thanks SWAPA.
Posts: 6,542
I don’t understand your guys math. A senior FO can make as much as a junior captain BUT WILL WORK MORE FOR IT. Ok let’s take a look at some math:
a 95 tfp reserve line for a captain is equivalent to 136 tfp for a senior FO. I am using MAX 12 year pay for a captain at 245 tfp and 171 tfp for an fo. But let’s say the fo gets a line (cause he is senior) with 21 days off at 95 tfp. Which is a base month. The avg reserve guys are doing today about 125 tfp (that’s with minimum 15 off). So if you take that 245x125 tfp your at 30,625. So for an FO to do that he is going to need 179 tfp. We previously agreed the avg senior line for an FO is 21 days off. So if you take his minimum monthly guarantee of 95 he is going to need 84 tfp EXTRA to make the 179. So even if he gets premium that pays 10 a day (which is very hard to get). He is going to have to work a MINIMUM OF 8 EXTRA DAYS!!! So his 21 off becomes 13 off that’s being gracious and giving him 10 tfp per day of work. I am a very junior captain and I was a very senior FO for a very long time. I can assure you a senior FO can make as much as a junior captain. But he/she will work alot harder for it then a junior captain commuting. This notion that a reserve line just pays 95 is INCORRECT and misleading. You get whatever pays higher. The average reserve lines today are in the 120’s. A year ago even during the height of Covid they were In the 100’s. A 3 day block of reserve pays 18 a 3 day trip pays 19.5. So if he/she gets called out for a 3 day right away their pay increases 1.5 tfp! Most senior FO’s I have come across realize this and hence are taking first available.
a 95 tfp reserve line for a captain is equivalent to 136 tfp for a senior FO. I am using MAX 12 year pay for a captain at 245 tfp and 171 tfp for an fo. But let’s say the fo gets a line (cause he is senior) with 21 days off at 95 tfp. Which is a base month. The avg reserve guys are doing today about 125 tfp (that’s with minimum 15 off). So if you take that 245x125 tfp your at 30,625. So for an FO to do that he is going to need 179 tfp. We previously agreed the avg senior line for an FO is 21 days off. So if you take his minimum monthly guarantee of 95 he is going to need 84 tfp EXTRA to make the 179. So even if he gets premium that pays 10 a day (which is very hard to get). He is going to have to work a MINIMUM OF 8 EXTRA DAYS!!! So his 21 off becomes 13 off that’s being gracious and giving him 10 tfp per day of work. I am a very junior captain and I was a very senior FO for a very long time. I can assure you a senior FO can make as much as a junior captain. But he/she will work alot harder for it then a junior captain commuting. This notion that a reserve line just pays 95 is INCORRECT and misleading. You get whatever pays higher. The average reserve lines today are in the 120’s. A year ago even during the height of Covid they were In the 100’s. A 3 day block of reserve pays 18 a 3 day trip pays 19.5. So if he/she gets called out for a 3 day right away their pay increases 1.5 tfp! Most senior FO’s I have come across realize this and hence are taking first available.
I’ll bet you a six pack of Deja Blu that the number bypassing upgrade will not drop below 600 at any point.
#105
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2019
Posts: 244
Junior captain commuting loses a minimum of, let's be generous, 3 days to commuting. That's assuming 3 day reserve blocks where they scrunched four of the blocks into 6 day blocks via smart trading, and left the fifth 3 day block. That's not for the transon commute where you may lose a day before and after a trip. That's not for today's typical reserve lines where it's a bunch of 4 day blocks that you can't legally bunch of.
So that's a minimum of 3 days lost to commuting, bringing that captain down to 12 days off, which is less than your 13 days you hypothesized to match a junior captain at 125. I will grant you though that it will require way less thought and living in cwa to get the junior captain pay, since you're just commuting and flying your line. But it is not incorrect to say that you can make just as much in roughly the same days off (one more day off using your numbers and my commuting numbers).
So that's a minimum of 3 days lost to commuting, bringing that captain down to 12 days off, which is less than your 13 days you hypothesized to match a junior captain at 125. I will grant you though that it will require way less thought and living in cwa to get the junior captain pay, since you're just commuting and flying your line. But it is not incorrect to say that you can make just as much in roughly the same days off (one more day off using your numbers and my commuting numbers).
#107
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2019
Posts: 244
I hope your right in terms of bypass I really do as someone that wants to get out of Oakland! But time will tell on that one. As for pay a junior captain will work less events then a senior fo period. I have the perspective of both seats. Most reserve guys here fly. We very rarely sit at all. We don’t get junior manned because we cannot get junior manned on reserve. Unless you agree to more flying on your last day.
#108
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2010
Position: DOWNGRADE COMPLETE: Thanks Gary. Thanks SWAPA.
Posts: 6,542
I hope your right in terms of bypass I really do as someone that wants to get out of Oakland! But time will tell on that one. As for pay a junior captain will work less events then a senior fo period. I have the perspective of both seats. Most reserve guys here fly. We very rarely sit at all. We don’t get junior manned because we cannot get junior manned on reserve. Unless you agree to more flying on your last day.
#110
I hope your right in terms of bypass I really do as someone that wants to get out of Oakland! But time will tell on that one. As for pay a junior captain will work less events then a senior fo period. I have the perspective of both seats. Most reserve guys here fly. We very rarely sit at all. We don’t get junior manned because we cannot get junior manned on reserve. Unless you agree to more flying on your last day.
Zman, sent you a PM with a couple questions if you have time. Thanks!
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