usernamehere

Things change in this industry. I worked in the United system (regional) when Jeff Smiseck was in charge. (Wasn’t pretty). I flew freight when I had a job but the guy pumping gas was a furloughed UPS pilot. A year and a few months ago an American FA was asking me at a hotel how we got gates in MIA, wondering if AA was going to survive. I’m pretty sure I’m staying put. It’d be a bigger consideration if I lived in an applicable base. I was also one of the 1221.

I did some rough math on my pay per block hour when I was checking out the pay at these other places. Last month was 300, but I’ve been around 200-250 at year 4. I’m not counting DHs in my block time in that. Just a very rough calculation to make me feel better as we make our way through this rough patch, which every place has.

itsokimapilot

The grass will always be greener at the neighbor’s house that has the big mortgage and is upside down on the note. There’s been some foolish things that have transpired in management over the past few years at SWA. The one thing that has been consistent is our positive cash position. NO ONE has the finance sheet of SWA. We are the largest carrier in over half of the top 50 domestic markets. We have numerous advantages over other carriers. How were we able to get gates in ORD and MIA? Because AA and UAL couldn’t afford to hold those gates. How long ago was it we were discussing the countdown to bankruptcy for these carriers?

Contract negotiation season really sucks here. We need a contract sooner than later. But, this too shall pass. My SWA W-2 will be in excess of $350K this year as an 7 year FO. I drive to work and I haven’t missed a holiday or family event since year one.

Those that are chomping at the bit to fly a shiny new jet, enjoy. There are places we don’t fly that other carriers serve. Long haul international is a young man’s game. Paris looks a lot like LGA after a few years. Only difference is you’re farther from home if your family needs you.

Good luck to those that need to chase an upgrade. To potential new hires, this is still a great place to work. Don’t let all the naysayers on APC convince you otherwise.

avi8er

for you to make over 350k as a 7 year FO you wold need to average over 180 trips a month on 8th year pay rate. No doubt is doable in the current environment with all the ja and premium, but that also means you are working your ass off and working on your days off. I never understood the W2 argument. Why would anyone gloat about working more to get pay equal or more with our peers?

itsokimapilot

You are correct. It’s a season in my life, college, taking care of parents, etc. It’s a valid consideration for anyone looking at different carriers. Why anyone would gloat about being the junior Capt in New York or SFO is beyond me. But, it’s something people consider. I make more than those junior captains and I bet you I’m home more than that junior captain. To each their own.

RJSAviator76

You really don't understand the W2 argument? Here, let me help you understand it better.

Can you tell the difference between these:

1) An Air Force retiree with Tricare and retirement who sees this as a cush retirement gig and has no need to pick up any extra flying.
2) A pilot who comes from a very well-to-do family and sees our retirement as nothing but some extra change due to inheritance.
3) A regional pilot who lived on PBJ and ramen for years in the regionals, who's now in his/her 50's with maybe a couple hundred grand in 401k who has a lot of catching up to do.
4) A pilot from a defunct airline who lost his/her A-plan and had to use the old 401k to survive.
5) A pilot who's looking at his/her kids and saying I don't want to saddle them with the insane college debt.
6) A pilot who's young, single, with no kids, no debt, whose career took him/her from zero to hero in a few short years and who now just loves to cruise the world.
7) A corporate pilot who makes very good money, but wants some job security and worries that the pay cut may be too steep.

This list is nowhere near conclusive.

APC figures for pay are not even remotely accurate. Not here anyway. I've been averaging 150 TFP since I started here. This year, my average is 165 TFP. During the pandemic, I averaged 155 TFP. This stuff matters to people and this data helps people make important life decisions. You may put priorities on smelling the roses and traveling the world who would be happy to fly only one trip per month. Others want to pay for their kids college or get caught up with retirement and aren't afraid to do so.

Make sense now?

avi8er

so let me get this straight. You are fine with a much lower pay rate than your peers because you can come to work on your days off and make more? How about we fight for a proper contract instead of saying “look at my W2! I made more than my buddy at delta because I worked twice as much!! Yay me!!!” But again to each their own.

Crockrocket95

First off. I want leading pay rates and more.

That being said, it could be $900 a TFP and guys would still try to hit 200 TFP a month working 20 days... its just how it is.

RJSAviator76

You missed my point by a country mile. Show me where I said I was "fine with much lower pay rate than our peers because I can come to work on days off and more more" or even took position on our pay rates. Hint: you'll find my older posts saying that our rates need to come up substantially and that the comparison needs to be based on guarantee, not 108 TFP... but I digress.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that in order to average 150-160 TFP comes at the expense of one's QOL, but to some people, W-2 and associated NEC contribution matter far more (or less) than to others due to their background and life circumstances. That's why I listed various demographics in my previous post. Which one describes you? And since you appear to get triggered by the mention of W-2, what in your mind constitutes a "proper contract" and how do we measure if it's "proper" or not?

KPer

Some chase the shiny jet, some chase the dollar, I chase neither. Just a good company… which I haven’t seen in 5 of my 6 years here. Your W2 haul is impressive, in 2 years you can be sitting CA in a NB at United making $400k working 1/3 less.

itsokimapilot

Out of the pan and into the fire. I wish anyone at United luck. There are things that need improvement here. Pay and seat are just a couple. But I wouldn’t ever recommend someone fly at United or American.

I had a classmate try to give me a hard time a couple years ago because I work so hard. He says “man, you’ve got to enjoy your life. I’m at 115 trips this month and I’m only working 14 days.” I laughed and had him look at my board. 150 trips in 14 days. How much you work is up to you. As the other popular thread goes, don’t work hard, work smart!