Airline Pilot Central Forums - New SWA 717 TPA Domicile

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I doubt the fuel had much to do with it. The planes held 117 when they had first class... when changed to southwest configuration they would have held more, thus mitigating fuel CASM differences.

Operating costs on the 717 vs 737-700 are about the same. As you said though CASM was higher on the 717 because of the configuration. Throw in different engines(SWA can't get a nice discount on BR715's because they don't make many of them VS the CM56's), lower TBO on them, differences in training for pilots and IROP's. Less than 5% of the 717 parts are compatible with 737. 717 has about 75% compatible with md88's and 90's. Perfect fit with Delta.

SWA is also getting rid of the 500's(122 seats) and adding 800's(175) seats. 100 oil is here to stay. Delta is getting rid of RJ's(high CASM) and replacing them with 717(lower CASM). SWA getting rid of 717 and classics(higher CASM) and replacing them 800's(Lower CASM). It's a shell game.

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SWA has been losing money for a while even while turning a great profit every quarter. Not losing money as in going into the red but losing money as in with some of the ways that things are run.

I think a better way of putting it is they are wasting money operationally and still turning profits. To be honest if they had about 2-3 qtrs of net losses you would see change. Unfortunately the profits mask the operational problems. Gary Kelly is a finance guy. Relies on his "ops" people to make those decisions. They don't seem to care.

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Originally Posted by Marvin (Post 1102069)

It depends.

If one is a senior 737 CA in ATL, then that individual can choose to bid over to SWA as an FO or stay in ATL as a CA or FO on the 717. IN addition, the more senior 737 CAs can keep their seat in ATL until the last few airplanes go through conversion, so they can potentially keep their seat for a couple years. On the SWA side, they will go wherever their seniority will hold for a base. If they choose 717 CA, they may be able to stay in ATL for a long time.

737 FOs will mostly be 717 FOs, although some will be able to get 737 FO on the SWA side and a few may be able to upgrade to 717 CA on the ATN side.

Some folks are bidding the 717 to try to stay in ATL or to try to retain a CA seat on the SWA side after 2015.

Clear as mud? :-)

Except for SWA management reneged on the transition award and terminated 737 CA to 717 CA transitions after only a handful transitioned.

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Originally Posted by Packrat (Post 1560832)

Or because its a modern DC-9.

Its 20 to 30 years newer than the POS 300's.

I rode in a -500 the other day. Didn't know you still had them. A DH CA told me there were 18 of them left.

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Originally Posted by jonnyjetprop (Post 1560826)

Without a dog in the fight, but why would Delta lease a loser like the 717?

DAL is the place where MD products (B717, MD90) that nobody wants go to die :D
Hey, it's a very cheap air frame of the size they want...as long as fuel prices remain stable...you can put lots of them on the line for minimal investment.

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Originally Posted by REF 5 (Post 1561280)

Thanks REF5 for not attacking. Point well made and taken.

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Originally Posted by Packrat (Post 1561340)

I rode in a -500 the other day. Didn't know you still had them. A DH CA told me there were 18 of them left.

Been 15 for a while now. They were made in 1990-92.

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Originally Posted by WHACKMASTER (Post 1560831)

Bingo. Because it's a pretty efficient, low mx aircraft.

How long does that engine last? Heard it was about a year.

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Originally Posted by tr4a (Post 1561539)

How long does that engine last? Heard it was about a year.

Yeah, is that what the big heads in Dallas say? They always tell the truth.

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Originally Posted by Packrat (Post 1561340)

I rode in a -500 the other day. Didn't know you still had them. A DH CA told me there were 18 of them left.

Rode back from Dallas yesterday on the 500 and noticed how much more comfortable the seats were than the 700, not to mention the extra two inches of pitch too.