JonnyKnoxville

This is too funny to read...

Delta guys giving Southwest trouble for not raising the bar. Wow!!!

I don't think the worlds highest paid narrow-body pilots have anything to prove here. It is a little past due for the Delta boys to step up to the plate. Even just showing the smallest bit of a fight would be nice. How about start with freezing the scope erosion.

You guys lowered the bar and now you blame the highest paid pilots for not raising the bar higher. What is next, do you need them to come over to Atlanta to do the negotiating for you?

OscartheGrouch

The problem with getting a "stellar" rate is the only example (those previously known as legacies) we have is that it hasn't lasted very long. So TS, please tell us what a stellar rate would be on the -800/MAX.

The Oscar

tsquare

That is a really good question. And at the risk of a "cop out" myself, I will say that I do not know. We have rates on every airplane under the sun it seems, and personally I think we are shooting ourselves in the foot because of - the way it has always been done- being some seat/weight/speed crap formula.. which is fine if you have a bunch of your biggest airplanes... but in our case, we don't. Forgive the drift. So... since the guys that will be negotiating this in the future for US will probably do it the way it's always been done.. I would think that once our 737 rates exceed yours, your 737Max rate should probably be 10-15% above that.. but that is just an off the cuff supposition. Set the bar for the next one, that's what you need to do.

tsquare

Read some history son.. then come back when you have something worthwhile to add to this discussion.

shoelu

Fortunately, we are already there. We are paid better, treated better and happier. SWAPA's stance on equal pay grades for the 737 goes back to the 737-500. They wanted the same rates for an airframe with less seating capacity. Unfortunately, SWAPA carried that philosophy forward with the 800 and accepted the same pay (we did receive modest pay raises across the board for all types) for a jet with more capacity. I thought we could have and should have gotten more, but that is now in the past. The MAX will still be a 700 or 800 variant and I doubt it will warrant a re-opener. Our CBA does specifically only list rates for Boring 737-300, -500, -700, -800 and 717. Boeing says these new MAX aircraft will be a specific new type, and that alone may force a re-opener. I don't think that the airlines flying the A320 NEO will be negotiating different rates for that airframe, but you seem to disagree with that statement.

JonnyKnoxville

I know my history old man, and this is not your father's Delta anymore. Southwest has been top dog for more than a few years now. The pride you have for the name painted on the side of your airplane does not pay **

Furthermore, when a pilot group has the reputation that yours does (historically speaking of course), I would probably try and do my best not to live up to it.

Rolf

I'm not sure which route is better. It seems to me that 1 scale to fly everything from 717s to -800 encourages the SWA to buy larger (fewer?) aircraft. Section 6 wishlist: improving near international codeshare, singing lessons (trust me, TS) and a shrubbery!

tsquare

What does any of this have to do with the topic at hand?

JonnyKnoxville

Good point. Delta has nothing to do with this topic. Congratulations to Boeing and Southwest on the huge aircraft order and the bright future that this news brings to both companies!

tsquare

So you think the -MAX rates will essentially be an extension of the -500 rates? This is very interesting. Guys at DAL are all abuzz because they think that an airframe that is more efficient should pay more than a current model. i.e.. The 787 is really nothing more than a 767 on steroids. Similar seat count, but l o n g e r legs... therefore it should (and does) pay more (by some's measure). As to the NEO rates, I have not a clue. If the common mantra of being paid more for being more efficient holds true, then yes I think they will be renegotiating that rate. Personally, I think different payrates for different airplanes is a crock, and it ultimately holds back one's career earnings.. but that's just me. (even though I have numbers to prove otherwise)