Southwest Adds Boeing MAX in $17.6 Billion Or
12-14-2011, 10:30 AM
#41
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2011
Posts: 166
About a year or so ago I was on a Delta MD80 jumpseat and the Capt was talking about the company pulling out the aft galleys and adding extra seats to the fleet but not even willing to talk about any increases in compensation. Was ALPA too busy fretting about pay rates for a jet not even on property (787) to spend any greenstamps on the narrow body flyers?
12-14-2011, 10:50 AM
#42
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
Originally Posted by shoelu
. If you decided to negotiate that right away, how in the world do you decide the pay rate for a new aircraft. Do you just have to take whatever they give you for a pay rate then wait for section 6 to re-negotiate that rate?
12-14-2011, 01:10 PM
#43
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: CA
Posts: 1,207
Originally Posted by tsquare
I have no idea. Scares the hell out of me actually.
12-14-2011, 01:49 PM
#44
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: B737/Capt
Posts: 998
Originally Posted by Rolf
I'm not sure which route is better. It seems to me that 1 scale to fly everything from 717s to -800 encourages the SWA to buy larger (fewer?) aircraft. Section 6 wishlist: improving near international codeshare, singing lessons (trust me, TS) and a shrubbery!
12-14-2011, 07:15 PM
#45
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
Originally Posted by V169
About a year or so ago I was on a Delta MD80 jumpseat and the Capt was talking about the company pulling out the aft galleys and adding extra seats to the fleet but not even willing to talk about any increases in compensation. Was ALPA too busy fretting about pay rates for a jet not even on property (787) to spend any greenstamps on the narrow body flyers?
But for your information. We have an MD88 rate and MD90 rate with a $3 to $4 difference between FO's and CA's. Nobody is outwardly opposed to making the former 142 seat MD88 into 149 seat MD88 pay the same as the 160 seat MD90. BTW, there was once a 73 classic and 73 new gen pay and categories but once the 737 fleet was all 738 nobody cared about the 737-700 pay being lower, until we got 737-700s. So that was made a priority and fixed into one when the opportunity allowed. BTW, we have a separate 739 pay still.
It's come up at LEC meetings and has been passed, it's probably higher up the food chain then that right now until at some point the opportunity allows and the company is willing to make a trade.
Even so, if an "opportunity allows" moment does occur prior to contract 2012 I seriously doubt that the MD88-MD90 pay issue is near DALPA's priority list nor is the company going to jump to give 1,300 to 1,400 MD88/MD90 pilots a $5M pay raise.
In the contract survey DALPA the talk of pay bands was brought up. We won't really know until the TA, different subject about not knowing prior, as to whether they'll band the NB flying together. Such that:
- the larger 142 seat MD88 will pay $5 more per hour to be the same as the smaller 126 seat A319 which makes $4 or so dollars less an hour than the 124 seat 737-700,
- the 148 seat A320 (that pays the same as the 126 seat A319) will pay the same as the same sized new 149 seat MD88,
- and all of those will pay the same as the MD90 which is the same size as the 738,
- And the 739 will pay the same as the jet it's replacing- the 752 and 763.
fwiw, I don't think anyone cares about the 787 here and if they are, they need to be removed and have their head examined given it's arrival is probably 2 contracts away if those aren't traded for something else from Boeing.
12-14-2011, 07:53 PM
#46
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Position: window seat
Posts: 12,522
Originally Posted by V169
About a year or so ago I was on a Delta MD80 jumpseat and the Capt was talking about the company pulling out the aft galleys and adding extra seats to the fleet but not even willing to talk about any increases in compensation. Was ALPA too busy fretting about pay rates for a jet not even on property (787) to spend any greenstamps on the narrow body flyers?
SWA rates plus reasonable premiums to account for our higher per pilot revenue for small narrowbody planes and up from there is what the rates should be. BTW I'm sure we will get the 787 some day. It might have a flower, an Eskimo or little blue crown on the tail, but our passengers will get to enjoy it some day soon I'm sure.
12-15-2011, 06:19 AM
#48
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
Originally Posted by forgot to bid
Wait just a minute, that sounds like a swipe at ALPA and let me tell you somethin.... oh wait, carry on.
But for your information. We have an MD88 rate and MD90 rate with a $3 to $4 difference between FO's and CA's. Nobody is outwardly opposed to making the former 142 seat MD88 into 149 seat MD88 pay the same as the 160 seat MD90. BTW, there was once a 73 classic and 73 new gen pay and categories but once the 737 fleet was all 738 nobody cared about the 737-700 pay being lower, until we got 737-700s. So that was made a priority and fixed into one when the opportunity allowed. BTW, we have a separate 739 pay still.
It's come up at LEC meetings and has been passed, it's probably higher up the food chain then that right now until at some point the opportunity allows and the company is willing to make a trade.
Even so, if an "opportunity allows" moment does occur prior to contract 2012 I seriously doubt that the MD88-MD90 pay issue is near DALPA's priority list nor is the company going to jump to give 1,300 to 1,400 MD88/MD90 pilots a $5M pay raise.
In the contract survey DALPA the talk of pay bands was brought up. We won't really know until the TA, different subject about not knowing prior, as to whether they'll band the NB flying together. Such that:
fwiw, I don't think anyone cares about the 787 here and if they are, they need to be removed and have their head examined given it's arrival is probably 2 contracts away if those aren't traded for something else from Boeing.
But for your information. We have an MD88 rate and MD90 rate with a $3 to $4 difference between FO's and CA's. Nobody is outwardly opposed to making the former 142 seat MD88 into 149 seat MD88 pay the same as the 160 seat MD90. BTW, there was once a 73 classic and 73 new gen pay and categories but once the 737 fleet was all 738 nobody cared about the 737-700 pay being lower, until we got 737-700s. So that was made a priority and fixed into one when the opportunity allowed. BTW, we have a separate 739 pay still.
It's come up at LEC meetings and has been passed, it's probably higher up the food chain then that right now until at some point the opportunity allows and the company is willing to make a trade.
Even so, if an "opportunity allows" moment does occur prior to contract 2012 I seriously doubt that the MD88-MD90 pay issue is near DALPA's priority list nor is the company going to jump to give 1,300 to 1,400 MD88/MD90 pilots a $5M pay raise.
In the contract survey DALPA the talk of pay bands was brought up. We won't really know until the TA, different subject about not knowing prior, as to whether they'll band the NB flying together. Such that:
- the larger 142 seat MD88 will pay $5 more per hour to be the same as the smaller 126 seat A319 which makes $4 or so dollars less an hour than the 124 seat 737-700,
- the 148 seat A320 (that pays the same as the 126 seat A319) will pay the same as the same sized new 149 seat MD88,
- and all of those will pay the same as the MD90 which is the same size as the 738,
- And the 739 will pay the same as the jet it's replacing- the 752 and 763.
fwiw, I don't think anyone cares about the 787 here and if they are, they need to be removed and have their head examined given it's arrival is probably 2 contracts away if those aren't traded for something else from Boeing.
12-15-2011, 08:29 AM
#49
gets time off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,160
Originally Posted by V169
It will still be a 737-700 or -800 flying the same stage length so asking 10-15% more would be totally idiotic - an across the board COLA raise for all would be a better target in the Section 6. Swa has said nothing about buying -900s.
Kelly, on whether Southwest will order the smaller 137-seat versions, the 737-700 or 737 MAX 7, or the large 175-seat versions, the 737-800 or 737 MAX 8:
"In particular, our focus right now is bringing the -800 or the MAX 8 into the fleet. We think in that size aircraft, the MAX 8 is competitively the most efficient, the lowest cost per seat in the marketplace. We'll have the option to choose. "We're the 737 MAX launch customer, which means it could be the 7, it could be the 8. Right now, it'll be oriented towards the 8, but you know, 2017 is a long time away and we may decide that we want the 7. For that matter, we may find a mission for the 9. We have that flexibility in the contract.
"But the 8 in particular is the lowest cost per seat and it extends the leverage we already have invested."
"But the 8 in particular is the lowest cost per seat and it extends the leverage we already have invested."
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