"NO" path(s) forward
09-23-2015, 02:45 PM
#1
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: 737 Right
Posts: 1,385
"NO" path(s) forward
Undecided voter here. Need unemotional discussion of possible future scenario:
1. TA Voted down
2. Federal Mediator Ices further negotiation for 1 year
3. After one year, company and union begin negotiations but can't reach agreement.
4. Because SWA is 25% of domestic traffic, government will not allow strike or self help and forces arbitration.
5. SWA arbitration offer is same contract with PBS and bigger section 1 concessions.
Now what?
1. TA Voted down
2. Federal Mediator Ices further negotiation for 1 year
3. After one year, company and union begin negotiations but can't reach agreement.
4. Because SWA is 25% of domestic traffic, government will not allow strike or self help and forces arbitration.
5. SWA arbitration offer is same contract with PBS and bigger section 1 concessions.
Now what?
09-23-2015, 02:52 PM
#2
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: Recovering Airline Pilot
Posts: 459
That's not how it works. The NMB can't force you into arbitration. Arbitration is purely voluntary.
It's also unlikely that the NMB would put you on ice for a year. Perhaps a few months, but anything longer than that is pretty unlikely.
It's also unlikely that the NMB would put you on ice for a year. Perhaps a few months, but anything longer than that is pretty unlikely.
09-23-2015, 03:49 PM
#3
New Hire
Joined APC: May 2010
Position: 737 FO
Posts: 6
1 Seat,
The company showed their hand with the JetBlue deal, and Tammy Romo's statement about forecasted code sharing revenue. That tells me that rejecting this POS will not result in long, protracted negotiations. The company needs relief.
Considering all the giveaways in this TA, I'm very happy to live under our current contract. Our Section 1 is worth way more than a months pay which is all we are being offered!
Easiest near zero risk No vote ever!
The company showed their hand with the JetBlue deal, and Tammy Romo's statement about forecasted code sharing revenue. That tells me that rejecting this POS will not result in long, protracted negotiations. The company needs relief.
Considering all the giveaways in this TA, I'm very happy to live under our current contract. Our Section 1 is worth way more than a months pay which is all we are being offered!
Easiest near zero risk No vote ever!
09-23-2015, 04:11 PM
#4
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: 737 Right
Posts: 1,385
Originally Posted by PCL_128
That's not how it works. The NMB can't force you into arbitration. Arbitration is purely voluntary.
It's also unlikely that the NMB would put you on ice for a year. Perhaps a few months, but anything longer than that is pretty unlikely.
It's also unlikely that the NMB would put you on ice for a year. Perhaps a few months, but anything longer than that is pretty unlikely.
And as far as Arbitration, given that I think we have about zero chance of being allowed to strike, what does that leave us?
09-23-2015, 04:18 PM
#5
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: 737 Right
Posts: 1,385
Originally Posted by Coastie Av8r
1 Seat,
The company showed their hand with the JetBlue deal, and Tammy Romo's statement about forecasted code sharing revenue. That tells me that rejecting this POS will not result in long, protracted negotiations. The company needs relief.
Considering all the giveaways in this TA, I'm very happy to live under our current contract. Our Section 1 is worth way more than a months pay which is all we are being offered!
Easiest near zero risk No vote ever!
The company showed their hand with the JetBlue deal, and Tammy Romo's statement about forecasted code sharing revenue. That tells me that rejecting this POS will not result in long, protracted negotiations. The company needs relief.
Considering all the giveaways in this TA, I'm very happy to live under our current contract. Our Section 1 is worth way more than a months pay which is all we are being offered!
Easiest near zero risk No vote ever!
So you think it will go:
1. "No" vote
2. SWA quickly sweetens the offer with more money?
However, it becomes a bit circular when many No-voter objections are with allowing codeshare. No leverage there if we won't allow it.
While we're on the subject of leverage, another tidbit I heard from a BOD rep today was that the company would easily be able to lease their 737MAX purchases. So if we thought we could leverage parking those a/c, the company has a backup plan. I had held out thinking that was a good plan for us but evidently not.
09-23-2015, 04:24 PM
#6
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: CA
Posts: 1,207
The NMB cannot force arbitration.
NMB determines further mediation will not help the parties reach
agreement and proffers voluntary-but-binding arbitration to the parties.
\/
Both parties agree to binding arbitration OR Either party or both decline binding Arbitration.
\/
Parties are released from mediation by the Board and a 30-day cooling-off (status-quo) period begins.
\/
If a Presidential Emergency Board (PEB) is not created in a particular Section 9a or Section 10 dispute situation, the parties may exercise Self Help when the 30-day cooling-off period expires.
\/
Under Section 10 of the RLA, if a dispute substantially threatens essential transportation in any section of the country, the NMB notifies the President who may establish a Presidential Emergency Board (PEB). If so created, the PEB has 30 days in which to investigate the dispute and report to the President during which the status-quo remains in effect. The parties may choose to accept the recommendations of the PEB, negotiate their own agreement, or, after 30 days from the issuance of the PEB report to the President exercise Self Help, unless Congress takes action.
NMB determines further mediation will not help the parties reach
agreement and proffers voluntary-but-binding arbitration to the parties.
\/
Both parties agree to binding arbitration OR Either party or both decline binding Arbitration.
\/
Parties are released from mediation by the Board and a 30-day cooling-off (status-quo) period begins.
\/
If a Presidential Emergency Board (PEB) is not created in a particular Section 9a or Section 10 dispute situation, the parties may exercise Self Help when the 30-day cooling-off period expires.
\/
Under Section 10 of the RLA, if a dispute substantially threatens essential transportation in any section of the country, the NMB notifies the President who may establish a Presidential Emergency Board (PEB). If so created, the PEB has 30 days in which to investigate the dispute and report to the President during which the status-quo remains in effect. The parties may choose to accept the recommendations of the PEB, negotiate their own agreement, or, after 30 days from the issuance of the PEB report to the President exercise Self Help, unless Congress takes action.
09-23-2015, 04:29 PM
#7
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: 757 Left
Posts: 1,306
Originally Posted by 1Seat 1Engine
Just to confirm you're saying what I think you are: Missed revenue from Sec 1 allowances provide us leverage to get a deal with the company.
So you think it will go:
1. "No" vote
2. SWA quickly sweetens the offer with more money?
However, it becomes a bit circular when many No-voter objections are with allowing codeshare. No leverage there if we won't allow it.
While we're on the subject of leverage, another tidbit I heard from a BOD rep today was that the company would easily be able to lease their 737MAX purchases. So if we thought we could leverage parking those a/c, the company has a backup plan. I had held out thinking that was a good plan for us but evidently not.
So you think it will go:
1. "No" vote
2. SWA quickly sweetens the offer with more money?
However, it becomes a bit circular when many No-voter objections are with allowing codeshare. No leverage there if we won't allow it.
While we're on the subject of leverage, another tidbit I heard from a BOD rep today was that the company would easily be able to lease their 737MAX purchases. So if we thought we could leverage parking those a/c, the company has a backup plan. I had held out thinking that was a good plan for us but evidently not.
09-23-2015, 04:29 PM
#8
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2010
Position: DOWNGRADE COMPLETE: Thanks Gary. Thanks SWAPA.
Posts: 6,605
Originally Posted by 1Seat 1Engine
Our other workgroups have been iced by their mediators for much longer than that.
And as far as Arbitration, given that I think we have about zero chance of being allowed to strike, what does that leave us?
And as far as Arbitration, given that I think we have about zero chance of being allowed to strike, what does that leave us?
09-23-2015, 04:45 PM
#9
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: 737 Right
Posts: 1,385
Originally Posted by WHACKMASTER
It leaves you the parking brake, thrust levers and logbook. Come on people. Start using a little common sense here!
So you can run that APU enough to make yourself happy, but you can't run it enough to force the company to it's knees.
09-23-2015, 04:46 PM
#10
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: 737 Right
Posts: 1,385
Originally Posted by Hawaii50
No dog in the hunt but basically you're saying anytime contract time comes up, even in times of record profit, you need to give something major to get a deal. 3 or more years past your amenable date with no hope of full retro and no punishment for the company for dragging it out. Pretty bleak if true for all of us but I think our real leverage comes from the fact we control a major portion of how an operation runs, strike or no strike. Best of luck to you all. Management seems to think they have us all over a barrel even as unprecedented profits roll in.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
