Honest question:

In 12-14 days of work, if indeed your FO's are making $200K easy and top FO's are making $300K, how much are your CAPTS making and what about your TOP Capts? How is that not the top 737 pay capability?

Presuming that would go up 20% with TA2, WHAT IS IN TA2 that drove you to a NO vote assuming a 737 FO would be making $240K easy and top FO's making nearly if not over $360?

[QUOTE=Drum;2235407 I don't disagree per se with his opinion, I just think he presents a factually incorrect assessment that is highly biased that does not represent ground truth. [/QUOTE]

So you don't disagree...with a highly biased, factually incorrect assessment that doesn't represent ground truth?

[QUOTE=Drum;2235407 Folks read this forum, and it should be pointed out when opinion is just that, someone's opinion.[/QUOTE]

Pretty sure people already know that.

They aren't making $200k + AND only working 12-14 days. Those were two separate statements. He also said that a $300k FO was at the end of the contract - not now.

I'm a topped out Capt that picks up probably 3 days a month and average $280k very comfortably. The numbers if TA2 passes show my increase in compensation only (not B fund or PS) to be an additional $40k in 2017, $50k in 2018 and adding $10k each year after that.

This is a balanced, factual statement of how it works around here.
You can either fly your line and make about an average paycheck, pick up days and work your butt off to make some extra, or spend your month sitting in front of your computer or on your phone and/or working and make a killing.
There are two camps here, those that want to compare W2s and those that want to get paid without working much. Both seem to do just fine.
Just know that we are more productive than other major airline pilots. You will block more here than your peers. It's just the way it is. Try and fight it and you will be frustrated. Even a low time flyer here will block 600+.
This is a great place to work if you like flexibility and either live in base or have an easy commute. Guys that are unhappy here are generally those who get really wrapped up about little issues or work politics. If you just do your part as a pilot and union member, work when and as much as you want, and collect your check on the 5th and 20th, you will be happy.

Wow. I am at 18 plus years at AA. $214k last year as a junior Captain. PHX is downsizing so I will move backwards perhaps out of the left seat. The last time I had a line it was 20 days of flying and 74 hours of pay. Lately I have been bidding reserve because it is less days. Only 18 on.

If you are a senior wide body FO you can make over $300k. I know of a 777 Captain that made $482k. He has a 2 digit seniority number. I am not sure how many of us can work the system that well. As a Junior pilot I just plug away and work. I can say I have a large amount of money saved up for retirement which was the best benefit we had. Gone now. I will get $1500 a month from my frozen A fund.

Legacy AWA pilots are cringing as our contract gets implemented. Their work rules were so much better than at LAA. APA is so difunctional that we get railroaded every time we get a new contract. Bring on ALPA. If you live in an AA domicile I would suggest you apply at AA. Otherwise I would look elsewhere. I like my job and would not do anything different in hindsight. AA is a good airline but not a great place to work. we have so many retirements coming up so the movement will be tremendous.

Oh the old tried and true "if you don't like it here just leave". That's one of my favorites. To answer your question, I have considered leaving. The only reason I don't is because I have eleven years invested here, am already in the left seat, and I have a family to consider. Believe me, if I was five years younger, I'd have been gone already. That's how little confidence I have in this Management team going forward. The lions share of the organic growth with an exclusively 737 fleet is just about over, and this Management team has already indicated that they would rather codeshare out all long haul flying rather than invest in a larger airframe. The coming stagnation alone should give any potential new hire pause before considering employment here. All that said, I don't tell F/Os I fly with to quit and go elsewhere, that is a very personal decision that every pilot has to make for themselves. I tell them the facts as I see them and don't sugar coat it, and I also tell them that I will personally do everything in my power to make SWA a place that they will want to spend their careers. Voting NO on T/A 2.

Devil's advocate says, "$220/hr at DL for 1st yr CA (assuming TA passes) if you don't mind commuting to NYC. You can bail and have a minimal pay cut until UOE is complete. With that short of upgrade it doesn't matter how long you've been here."

I was based in NYC at my last job and there's a reason it goes that jr and 7,000 other people passed on it. But opportunity is there if you want it. FedEx is sub 2 yrs on the 757.

I'm happy here....quirks and all. From the yr I've been here it seems HQ is trying to right the ship from the last 4 yrs. Time will tell how long it takes...now if we could just replace that router already!

Fly guy,
Glad you've had a good first year here. Hopefully it works out well for you. I'm also very well aware of the current hiring situations at our competitors. If you read what I wrote, I have a family to consider and since I'm not going to commute to another City to fly for another Airline, and I'm not going to uproot my family, that's not an option for me and I'm fine with that. Again, you and Drum are entitled to your opinions and I'm entitled to mine. We just see things from different perspectives and I've have a longer history to draw mine from that's all. I will continue to call things as I see them and fight to make this the Airline I fought to come to over a decade ago.

Oh I wasn't saying you should uproot and go. That was more for the people who got "stuck" here during the lost decade and are miserable people to work with. If they're not happy, there's no reason they can't move on with upgrade times as low as they are. Life's too short to be miserable IMO......I think though that they'd be miserable pretty much anywhere they went since some people need something to complain about (even if it's just the weight of the bag of money they get every year)

There are many people who are pretty happy that they will make a killing here who will happily vote YES, and that's fine.

My reasons for NO vote:

- Our LOL/STD/LTD needs quite a bit of an improvement.
- In light of Delta's TA (and UAL's me-too), we fall behind with regards to our pay rates... and we are the largest domestic US airline carrying the most passengers.
- There's no reason for incremental implementation of the B-plan. Industry standard is 16% and we don't get there until 2020 and that's only if we trade 1% 'raise' for it.
- I don't believe that our Section 1 leverage is nearly as strong as people believe. I don't trust the courts... so I'd prefer to get the Contract done right off the bat instead of nickel-and-diming our way with various MOU's. Some may disagree with me, and that's fine.

There's other dink stuff that may be a tad inconvenient, but wouldn't otherwise cause me to vote NO if the big items above were addressed.

Though I do think TA2 is a good step in the right direction and represents a good faith effort by the Company, it falls short (a tad over a billion dollars) of what our SWAPA leadership was telling us was unassailable - the Platform.