What UAL MGMT says to their Pilots......
 

While our mgmt sues us. HIGH FIVE



Pilots:
United and the Air Line Pilots Association (ALPA) have reached a negotiating protocol agreement that will allow formal negotiations for a new pilot contract to proceed ahead of schedule, with a goal to reach a new agreement by December 2018.

Every day we rely on our dedicated and professional pilots to help us run a safe, caring and reliable airline that we’re all proud of. Staying a step ahead in our negotiations work is an example of our shared value to “Fly Above and Beyond” for both our employees and our customers, and we look forward to reaching a fair agreement that’s appropriate for the best pilots in the industry.

We will keep you updated on our progress. As always, we look forward to working together with ALPA to come up with an agreement that works for our pilots and for the company.

Fly safe,

SVP Flight Ops

Spirit “wanted an early agreement” too

It should be noted that if United ALPA is successful in securing improvements just one short year from now how far behind we will Be yet again if we don’t get industry standard this time. Close to industry standard is not an option. Especially with Spirit management all but demanding 8 year bargaining cycles

There isn’t a comparison between varsity and junior varsity, please don’t compare United and Spirit. UAL will come to an agreement before Spirit pilots even get to look at a new proposal, carry on...

Thanks for the tip. I’ll compare the same aircraft on the same routes to the same airports with the pilots doing the same job all day long. How the company decides to configure their seats and sell their tickets is not my concern whatsoever.

Why don’t you go to United?

Fact is Spirit is not in the same league as United, regardless what anyone says.
Flame away...

Jesus have some self respect. Its amazing how Spirit has hired guys who dont value themselves or their skill

There are plenty of reasons why one would decide to stay or leave Spirit. You also can’t make the phone ring. Further, many of us came to Spirit hoping to make a career here and reluctantly are looking at other options but while waiting for the phone call you don’t roll over and die. You fight for what is right so hopefully you don’t have to leave.

It’s a shame that over the last year or so we have hired some very low time guys that wouldn’t have had any chance a couple years ago they are generally quite young and haven’t been in the business long so really have no idea what it takes to support a family or what they should be making at this level. We have increased our intake of guys that have come from rag tag 36th street cargo or charter or 135 on call 24/7 no pay operations. Many of them fine pilots but have been beaten for so many years they actually think they should be paid less. When some new guys tell you that a bunch of pikots from their old shop went to or are going to Norwegian you know they have zero self respect.

Now don’t come on here and lower anyone’s expectations. You can keep that poison to yourself and when we secure an industry standard deal you can gladly donate the top portion of your pay and retirement to the rest of us so you are compensated the way you value yourself.

According to recent NC quotations and emails, we are seeking a 'market rate' contract now. The NC defines these terms and will notify you when they are achieved.

Wow! Douchebag alert^^^^^

FWIW, most of the UAL pilots I know think it's a bunch of BS and just management lubing them up for a scope giveback. Which isn't even a remote possibility.

My guess is we (UAL) are interested in getting financing on new aircraft, or something to that effect and investors like long term stability, our management is predicting much better future profitability so better to negotiate now. They will probably try to offer modest tweaks and pay increases on same contract. Any scope relief or changes is just pure pilot speculation and our union is not open to giving wide scope relief for a few bucks. Plus realistically there isn't a regional that can staff as it is, who would we give rjs too anyway? I've jumpseated on you guys several times, great crews I hope you guys get this contract nailed!

It’ll be interesting to see how this plays out. I’ve read a couple of investment articles citing United’s degradation in operating margin. In fact, it is not out of the realm of possibility that they’ll LOSE money Q1 2018 if they don’t change their behavior. If they’re starting to lose money, how accepting to further raises will management be? And, I hate feeding uneducated trolls, but if we’re not in the same league, why is United attempting to mimic our business model?

They arent trying to mimic our business model, they are just matching fares to not lose market share. Basic Economy rollout has been kind of a failure from what I gather but lets be realistic. They have a warchest that could sink us if they really wanted too.........yes it would cost them millions but they have it.......

Good point on matching our fares vs. business model, there is a distinction and I blurred it.

With regards to United’s “war chest”, taking into account their whole balance sheet and operating costs and revenue performance , said “war chest” is more like a rainy day fund. Southwest on the other hand...

Famous words of Spirit Management: “If you want to drive a Mercedes go to United. If you’re okay with driving a Kia stay at Spirit.” - Jyri S.

Oh you mean the same guy who has been hiring guys without their ATP?......and got blasted from the FAA? That guy

Yeah, and hypocritical for JS who actually drives a Mercedes himself! Nothing like leading by example!

Don't be emotional and be realistic. Has nothing to do with self respect.

Go tell the ATI or Atlas guys that because they drive 767/747 and so does UPS they can ask and expect UPS wages. The business model is different and so are the margins.

Not the same and I can tell you that the atlas pilots do expect the same.

And what the heck is your purpose for managing down expectations. All it does is hurt us.

This actually happened?

Yessir

He kept arguing he could. They FAA said per our manuals we can’t so ya neee stop. If we want to keep doing it, the FAA will suspend our certificate while he rewrites our manuals.

You just cant make this stuff up

Isn’t an ATP or a Restricted ATP required for 121? Is this as of late he’s been trying to do this? If so people need to know because that means we are in the drivers seat and they need a deal worse than we thought

This past week

You don’t wanna talk margins pal... your only reiterating our argument...biz model sure... margins..go do some more homework

According to my LEC reps, our MEC chair has already told management that scope relief is a non starter for negotiations and it will not be entertained. If this is indeed true and they still try to make us budge on scope relief, then I predict we will then see the true colors of our new management team.

Regardless of what happens here, don't lower your expectations for what you all deserve! It doesn't matter what your business model is compared to ours at UAL. Your company's made buckets of cash. Time to share the wealth!

Thank you, sir! We sincerely appreciate your support!

It is required. If I had to guess I think he thought they could do what some regionals can do ( for example XJT). They can hire pilots without ATPs, but it’s because they have an approved program to where the pilots come to class, and then go get take their ATP written. Then they come back finish up SIMs and type rides. From what I understand is Spirit has not been approved to do this. I would guess Spirit would probably have to go AQP to get it approved.

He knows what fhe rules are, he thinks rhey dont apply to him

Haven’t seen a number lately, but doesn’t Spirit have some of the highest margins in the industry?

I think we are about midpack on margins these days. We used to be leaders but low oil has the other airlines really crushing it too.

If they are really to the point of trying to hire guys without atps then we have all the leverage. Unfortunately the Atl base closure at xjt gave us an influx of experienced pilots otherwise Spirit might have already hit the staffing wall. Remain patient boys. It’s our time. NMB or not Spirit is going to have to get this done and done right. Don’t settle for less than industry standard.

How did the testing center for the ATP written allow them to take it without proof of graduation from an approved CTP program?

I don’t know the specifics, but I would guess since the FAA signed off on it that XJT ( there are other regionals as well ) would issue a letter that stated so and so has met such requirements to take the ATP written.

I understand that, but did the spirit guys even get to that point because they have no FAA certification for it?

If they really want to cripple us they should just open an ATL base, that would serve as a huge pacifier for many people.