Here is what happens if we vote down the TA
 

I finally got a response to some questions I had regarding the upcoming vote.

If we vote down the T/A:

The negotiating committee will conduct another survey to determine what changes need to be made to facilitate the passing of the TA. The Survey will also consist of questions regarding our faith in the negotiating committee. ( No one on the negotiating committee is ready to quit or wants to quit if the TA does not pass.)

If minor changes are needed, the NC and the company will meet with the national mediation board to make tweaks to the TA and put it out for another vote.

If major changes are needed we are back to normal negotiating. If the company is not willing to negotiate then we are officially at an impasse. The red lanyard go back on and the campaign continues. The national mediation board will then make recommendations on how we shall proceed.

Anyone have that Trump MEME

“Sounds great, doesnt work”, lol.

J/k. I dont think the issue is how we proceed. Everyone knows what happens, the issue is will it be worth the wait? What are you willing to give the company in order to get your pay up etc??

Both posts, thank you.

That’s one path but definitely not the only path.....

Another survey? Why? They didn’t even release the results of the last one asking if we wanted PBS! (And I bet it was an overwhelming NO)

If it fails their needs to be some level of house cleaning that takes place. The NC has told us for the last 3 years to trust them. We have and IF this is a turd later today they should bear the brunt of the pilot groups frustrations.

All I said was that IF its a turd later today why should they not be held accountable? We've all lost a few hundred thousand waiting for this deal to come around. If it misses the mark badly why should we blindly follow it down the same path again?

Just woke up, was a dumb comment... deleted

When we (Delta pilots) voted down our TA, it took almost a year and a half for us to get another one. This was while dealing with a company that wanted us to have a new contract. The TA we voted down was 6 months prior to amendable date. The one we voted in was given to us about 11 months after amendable date with full retro from the amendable date. We lost the money that would have been give to us 6 months prior with the first TA. The majority of the pilot group feels voting down our first TA was the right decision myself included. Our's was voted down mainly due to sick leave provisions and changes to our profit sharing plan. The profit sharing section ended up being unchanged and the sick leave section was still changed, but to something a little more tolerable. Section 3 was about a wash.

IMHO, I don't think you guys will do nearly as well as we did. Your company is run by scumbags. It took a strike to get your last deal. It's obvious to me as an outsider that you guys want paid, but the company refuses. It sucks. I am honestly glad I don't work at Spirit because it looks like you guys will always be paid less through no fault of your own.

Good post, thank you for the insight.

Some will never admit there's a difference, but there ALWAYS has been. Maybe one day an A320 will be an A320 and that's it, but I just don't see that being the case here.

Just glancing at our AIP it would appear we made some great Spirit strides, but they're still far from... (pick any legacy).

Do we hold out, risk what we gained for more? Unknown as of 11 EST, I can't seem to read the TA yet! :D

Just an FYI:
When Spirit signed the last deal our top rate was higher than most legacy A320/B737 pay (if I remember correctly it was on par with 757/767 at DL & AA. The only reason we are even looking at the current TA is because the NMB is buying into the low tier argument. Look at what happened to Alaska, the got way below legacy because it's not a big international company (mediator, not my opinion).

Yes but those rates at the Legacies were also BK rates, Spirit was not. Though it is interesting that in 2011 DAL TOP 777/747 CA pay was like $226/hr and Airbus topped out at $175, where over at Airways the 320 topped out at $125

And that's because they let the company position themselves into that place by CODESHARES.

SCOPE IS IMPORTANT.

And in 2011 12 year A320 at Spirit was $152.84.

I’m not sure where this myth of Spirit contract 2010 having higher than legacy rates. Retirement was far inferior, Ltd crap, scope nonexistent, and the bottom right of the pay chart not an accurate comparison for the year.

So true, complete myth perpetuated by the ignorant.

For 2010 highest pay rate in Spirit contract was $185 before A321 override. Highest rate for DL A320 $155, B767/A330 $190
AA B737 $166 B767 $179.
Yes bankruptcy rates, yes no-one at Spirit got those rates because DOS+4, but the rates were still higher than anything the Legacy had in the contract.

Source:
https://web.archive.org/web/20100113091006/http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com:80/airlines/legacy/american.html

Delta united and continental had new contracts in 2012.

12 year Spirit captain from 2010-2012 was $143.40-155.90. No one was making $185 apples to apples is 12 year captain for those years. Spirit was not making more. I think this is some kind of ego thing for people

It's not an ego thing for me i hope. I said in another post, I don't think we will get legacy pay, because the NMB believes in tiers for pilots, I just disagree with the " Spirit/F9 have never made close to legacy rates, and it will never happen". The last time we signed our future rates were higher than the rates for the legacy carriers, and (because of that) when they got new contracts after their bankruptcies, their rates eclipsed ours. Us having to settle for second tier pay/work rules just because we are a smaller company isn't great.

we will always have the hope of making more than bankrupt airlines

We agree. Some just keep saying it when the legacy pilots come in here. It’s not factual. I don’t think we are worth a penny less than them but I don’t twist the past

Finally we agree..............

Rates were only higher for very top years of longevity at DOS4, everything else was well below. Id be making 20$/hr more under AAs 2010 contract for 737 than I am now. 10$/hr more at Delta for Airbus.

But hey I guess since our AIP DOS+4 CA 12 is now 260/hr we just matched United. That’s pretty good!