Negligent accounting
02-25-2018, 05:07 AM
#161
On Reserve
Joined APC: Nov 2015
Posts: 23
Originally Posted by RJSAviator76
Actually, we were at the bottom of the industry among our peers. We didn't even have B-plan, and we were told over and over that we would NEVER have a B-plan at Southwest Airlines. TA1 only included 0.7% increase in 401k match. Our peers at Delta, United and American all had either 15 or 16% B-plan.
Well... 9-10 months later, after changing NC and our union leadership, we had industry-leading pay rates, until Delta and subsequently United with their me-too clause passed us, and we also got a B-plan.
It all boils down to what you're willing to accept. Pay comes and goes... PBS was a major concession of the last decade, and you're giving it away for bringing you closer to industry standard? I also think you should read a little more about LTD at other airlines and see how things work elsewhere since many of you seem to be excited about it. Hint, you can and should do FAR better.
As for unity... well, that's up to your leadership, how communicative they are, and how fired up they are. When we were in negotiations, we were getting something almost every day from the union. When over 1,000 pilots showed up for a picket in Dallas during blistering heat... you couldn't ignore it. Mind you, this is the biggest koolaid drinking pilot group in the industry. Strong leadership and defined goals. Do you have that?
I don't know what to say to you guys. I'd like to see you engage in a pattern-based bargaining fashion, or at least get very close, but you seem to be going against the very lanyard many of you wear and it's puzzling, to say the least.
Well... 9-10 months later, after changing NC and our union leadership, we had industry-leading pay rates, until Delta and subsequently United with their me-too clause passed us, and we also got a B-plan.
It all boils down to what you're willing to accept. Pay comes and goes... PBS was a major concession of the last decade, and you're giving it away for bringing you closer to industry standard? I also think you should read a little more about LTD at other airlines and see how things work elsewhere since many of you seem to be excited about it. Hint, you can and should do FAR better.
As for unity... well, that's up to your leadership, how communicative they are, and how fired up they are. When we were in negotiations, we were getting something almost every day from the union. When over 1,000 pilots showed up for a picket in Dallas during blistering heat... you couldn't ignore it. Mind you, this is the biggest koolaid drinking pilot group in the industry. Strong leadership and defined goals. Do you have that?
I don't know what to say to you guys. I'd like to see you engage in a pattern-based bargaining fashion, or at least get very close, but you seem to be going against the very lanyard many of you wear and it's puzzling, to say the least.
Can you please explain how you guys drop trips and or trade/swap them for schedule flexibility?
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02-25-2018, 06:55 AM
#162
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2017
Posts: 227
Originally Posted by EconoPilot
Can you please explain how you guys drop trips and or trade/swap them for schedule flexibility?
02-25-2018, 06:59 AM
#163
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2017
Position: NK CA
Posts: 826
Originally Posted by Planepirate
Yes. Also explain how you can be met by an agent after the last leg of your trip and be told that you have to fly two more days. Tell me again how you can say “no” to that.
02-25-2018, 07:05 AM
#164
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2017
Posts: 227
Originally Posted by Lincoln Osiris
Does not meet the “positive contact” requirement and you cannot be told on a whim to just “fly two more days” lol.
You do realize I was talking about southwest in my comment?
02-25-2018, 07:12 AM
#165
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2013
Posts: 456
Originally Posted by Planepirate
Yes. Also explain how you can be met by an agent after the last leg of your trip and be told that you have to fly two more days. Tell me again how you can say “no” to that.
A gate agent can’t assign additional flying all they can do is tell you to contact crew scheduling. So that is where you decide if you want to do that or not. Positive contact is still the same in the TA as it is in the current contract.
02-25-2018, 07:18 AM
#166
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2012
Position: 737 FO
Posts: 880
Originally Posted by Planepirate
Yes. Also explain how you can be met by an agent after the last leg of your trip and be told that you have to fly two more days. Tell me again how you can say “no” to that.
02-25-2018, 07:48 AM
#167
Gets Weekend Reserve
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,611
Pretty sure this was a dig at Southwest.
Two ways to trade: with the company and with fellow pilots. If I want a stretch of days off, even as a junior pilot, I’ve been able to get them. As to the specifics, read our forum, it’s been discussed ad nauseum. Is it perfect? Nope. Can it be improved? Absolutely.
As to getting JA’d, you’re paid double time for it. If you’re fatigued, you call fatigued, and you’re off. Get JA’d and you have a big event, call your chief and your trip is gone.
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Two ways to trade: with the company and with fellow pilots. If I want a stretch of days off, even as a junior pilot, I’ve been able to get them. As to the specifics, read our forum, it’s been discussed ad nauseum. Is it perfect? Nope. Can it be improved? Absolutely.
As to getting JA’d, you’re paid double time for it. If you’re fatigued, you call fatigued, and you’re off. Get JA’d and you have a big event, call your chief and your trip is gone.
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02-25-2018, 08:21 AM
#169
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: A320 CA
Posts: 765
Originally Posted by RJSAviator76
I should also add that our reserve pilots can and do credit equivalent of over 100 hours on a pretty regular basis.
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02-25-2018, 08:40 AM
#170
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2011
Posts: 279
Originally Posted by RJSAviator76
I should also add that our reserve pilots can and do credit equivalent of over 100 hours on a pretty regular basis.
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You're comparing apples to oranges my friend. I've mentioned in previous posts that it wasn't that long ago SWA was the lowest paid(see your senior CA's in the 90's made less than most legacy widebody FO's). *Spirit is a 112 AC airline. *Most of our longevities are 50% behind in pay. *SWA wasn't that far behind in pay during your last round of negotiations and you could afford to wait on a better deal. *SWA management actually wants a good relationship with its employees, Spirit management could care less about us! *Spirit has NO merger protection! *Our current LTD is terrible! *Our pilot group is apathetic(see we didn't get 700 pilots total to show up at ALL of our pickets added together, JB did that last month in the freezing cold). *The VA/AK arbitration is precedent setting and set the ceiling for our top pay.
I stood with you during your first picket at Love Field. I wish our group had the UNITY and leadership that SWAPA showed during your negotiations. But the truths speak for themselves. We are dealing with the devil when it comes to employee/management negotiations and our group is tired/broken. Most can't wait and roll the dice to see if we will get a few more dollars per hour, better section 25 language or more DC at DOS. The risk far outweighs the reward!
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