Update
 

Regardless of what your voting position is, it's worth it for all of us to take a few minutes and watch the March '17 video update from our NC.

It may put some things into perspective.

The entire video is noteworthy; especially around 4:15.

You can find the video under the SPA Alpa page, Negotiations Updates.

or-

http://www3.alpa.org/portals/alpa/mu..._2017_480p.mp4

Guess that all went out the window and we have what we have now. Another "low tier" contract with gutted work rules! Seems like a lot of talk and no action. :cool:

What a difference a year makes. To say we have been sold out is an understatement :(

You should leave Spirit Airlines. All of your expectations will never be met and you’ll never be happy working here now. Time to move on and find some place you’ll be happy. Living and analyzing the past will not bring you any fulfillment to your aviation career at Spirit Airlines

Douglas9 you couldn't be more wrong. Stand and fight. Our problem is we have the RJ mentality/low Tier. Guys don't know any better, so they actually think it's a good TA. Guys I talk to are scared to vote no because "what if"? The union is selling "it's not going to get better". That's just wrong. Wait till you see the profit under the new tax laws. SIGNING BONUS! How many of the senior guys would voted yes if their was no signing bonus? I'd bet not many. Clearly that's why the money is skewed to the senior guys. ALPA is just plain buying votes and pulling up the ladder. For the Company this is a Dream Contract, I'm sure that can't believe how easy ALPA rolled over and gave up the work rules. That was easy. Great job Bendo! You're clearly worth every penny Spirit pays you.

LOL yea our package proposal was 1.2 billion dollars. The company's September proposal was 250 million. We came to a TA with a compensation package of 928 million dollars. Yep i'd say ALPA just rolled over and died and the company got their "dream contract" alright.

Haha.


“Stand and Fight!”

Is this what you call 40-50 pilots showing up at picketing events?

How about 15 showing up to the FLL roadshow last week? If guys are so “angry” and ready to fight, why aren’t they telling the NC how they failed them and what they expect?

According to the Q and A yesterday, 15% of our pilots don’t even participate at all in our 401k, for free money. We demand profit sharing yet 1 out of 7 pilots don’t even take the free money on the table for them now?

Apathy. Severe apathy has set in. There will be no “stand and fight.” We would have had the hundreds that Frontier and JBLU had at their picketing events if this group had “stand and fight” in them.

Thank God this ends in a week. The false bravado of these forums is sickening at times

It's about give and take. We gave a lot and they tossed below market wages in trade. FACT The give of transition was big, on the Spirit list that was #1. That fixes a lot of issues. PBS will allow them to fix other major hiccups every month that can't manage. (vacation and training) Reserve change is major. It's going to cause an increase in sick calls IMHO. Guys are going to take the time off they need. FACT. Section 25 changes are big. What did we get ? Below market pay and below market DC plus more days to work. No profit sharing. No backend at all. We get to watch the profits roll in. Buy the stock because Spirit will be flush will cash. Low tier all the way! Vote "yes" vote more low tier! :eek: FACT

Guys aren't in the 401k program because they don't have the money! Earth is calling. Are you just clueless or what?

You get what you vote for. LOW TIER! The airbus is now just a big RJ!

Fact- your idea of what is reality isn’t reality.

Fact- this passes in 8 days and you’ll get to order some nice lanyards for you and your friends to wear around FLL to show you are a no vote. Did you ever order those yellow ones?

Fact-Scream at the heavens all you want. The FACT is this group is tired and ready for it to be done. Numbers don’t lie and the pathetic turnouts we have seen with events show that it’s done

So keep screaming to your audience of 10 on this forum. I know this is passing and can’t wait for it to be done. Just look at the tone from guys on this forum. What started as a roar or negativity and no votes has turned into a whimper of a few.

It’s done. All that’s left is you and your fellow Japanese soldiers on an island in the pacific, not knowing the war is over.

This is spot on! This pilot group is full of yes men, they'll be no fighting for a better TA. The picketing events speak for themselves! Accept the new TA or move on! Everyone wants a better deal, but they refuse to pull their weight to get it done. Gimme Gimme Gimme, ALPA owes me, it's the millennial way!

So true. But I still voted No out of principle.

It'll be interesting to see how many keep voting with their feet throughout the year.

Thank you for proving my point. In fact you and all of the other really dissatisfied “no” voters need to apply to non-ALPA carriers now. You will never find what you want now at Spirit Airlines.

Now I believe this contract with substantial increase in wages will change people’s lives. It could also afford people to build a considerable war chest for the next negotiation. Too many people have been making crap wages in this business for too long. You can call it shiny object syndrome but money in the hand now is huge to a majority of the pilot group.

By taking care of a lot of the basic needs now will enhance a more enthusiastic fight in the future.

Wages are STILL BAD in this TA..... reread the compensation section. You take Allegiant out of the “average industry standard” and we are well below that “line” ALPA likes the show off at the road show in their power point. Don’t sell yourself short. Sure there is a "pay increase" but again, because we are so far behind the curve, you would take that 43% increase at face value....it needs to be higher.

Almost none. The ALPA attorney (I forget her name) said that attrition wasn't even an issue in negotiations. I think she said 4%. The flood gates aren't now nor will they ever be open. Accept the new TA or go find a new airline.

No the wages now are bad. When a lot of us signed up to work here top end at 15 years was 185. Now a junior captain is making 200 an hour plus DC and LTD. Did you really think we would get Delta wages? Get real. Life changing for some people.

I think it’s quite likely that the behavior exhibited by many of our pilots during the meltdown last year that resulted in the TRO undercut our negotiating position more than most of us would care to admit. Sold out? Not by the negotiating committee. I think they got us the best deal possible considering the s#!t sandwich we handed them.

We will have nothing left to fight for in the 'future'. Besides giving away our 'gains' for below industry standard COMPENSATION, alpa has showed their cards, their bluff has been called. Alpa has effectively spayed/neutered us for any future negotiations. Our only hope is a strong NO vote to show we, the PILOTS of spirt airlines will not accept to be allocated to the basement of airline pilot compensation for the next 8+ years.

This post says it all...... 50 people for a picketing event ?! :eek:

43% pay bump is nothing to sneeze at........ how many contracts do you think it took for the Legacy Airlines to arrive at their pay rates? 11% DC is a nice start and improves throughout the life of the contract. EVERY TA has tradeoffs to improvements. Sit down with the wife and explain the positives and the negatives - I bet she will agree with what I am trying to get across.

Next round of negotiations you will be in a lot better position for the gains that we fought hard for long ago. The simple fact of low turnout at LEC meetings Roadshows and Picket events shows the will of the pilot group in quantifiable data. The company and the NMB also know this.

Congrats on the new contract and wrestling 1B from the most anti-labor MGT in the business is nothing to sneeze at - well done.

Classic! blame on the pilots for not showing up to meetings and picketing events. Bravo!!!!

Whoosh......right over your head - lol

No. But I thought we would be in the ballpark or at least in the same block!!! Not 3 towns over in the JetBlue / Allegiant neighborhood!



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Well much like you, thats dumb.

I would really appreciate if someone could explain to me how some people come to the conclusion that ALPA is essentially our enemy?! I've been in the business for quite awhile and realize there is always that percentage that always feels this way (sourgrapes our own ALPA hating chairman). "ALPA rolled over" "buying votes" "smoke and mirrors", blah blah blah! These guys negotiating the contract have to live under the same contract, so why would they push anything they felt was garbage? I'm not an ALPA cheerleader nor hater, so don't really have an agenda. Lets just say I'm a seeker of truth (yeah I know.....why ask on the internet)! If anybody has SOLID examples how ALPA truly "sold them down the river" I'd like to hear them. Please prove to me how naïve I am and how all my dues are a complete waste!

You are damn right I blame our lazy pilots who did the bare minimum these last 3 years, basically wearing a lanyard, which some complained and refused to do.

I definitely blame those who chose to sit at home during a picketing event while a small group of us marched in circles to support of NC and demand for improvements.

I for sure blame the lazy apathetic pilots who chose to not be part of the process by attending a road show in person, even if they could have, because "I know how I will vote."

I applaud and thank those who walked with me in these picketing events, going back to the 40 of us in Houston a few years ago. Those who jumpsat to picketing events out of base to support their fellow pilots, and those who attended road shows to be a part of the process and contribute.

We had guys jumpseat this week to PHL to attend a roadshow, on their day off, in order to participate in the process. Meanwhile a base of 600 gets 15 to show...sad.

A lot of you blame the "Union" for what this TA lacks, "The union screwed us" or the "union is to blame." Wake up, we are the "union." Its only as strong as its pilots. And when a huge percentage of your pilots say "Nah, thats too much effort on my part, ill peck away on a forum instead;" you end up with a tough fight ahead of you.

Thankfully we have a small group of volunteers here who have stepped up and did the heavy lifting to get this pilot group HUGE increases in this TA and have worked their butts off these last 3 years to make it happen; most recently being on the road for 2 weeks, away from their families, in order to address a group of 15 in FLL.

So I am grateful to those who did the heavy lifting, and my family is grateful. Thank you.

To those who sit and complain and did nothing these 3 years, you all know who you are, screw you...plain and simple. You have nothing to complain about and should be sending the NC members memberships to the Jelly of the Month club...it is, after all, the gift that keeps on giving.

Mic drop!

filler

Nice post and I couldn’t agree more. I’m not sure how we got this apathetic...

Right on brother! Preach it!!

Its time to accept that this is the best we are going to get and what we deserve. We should thank the company for giving us as much as they did. Things are going to be awesome around here after this passes.

Your sarcasm noted...ive fixed it for you...

Thank the company?
Nah
Nope
Thank our negotiators, and keep your powder dry. The daily fight for CBA compliance starts 3/1.

I think "crap wages" may be a relative term.

If you're making 150k a year and having a hard time making ends meet- and think you're life is going to "dramatically change" by making 200k while spending another ~800 nights away (mostly at airport hotels) from your family over the next decade- I'd like to hear how that works for you.

Fornaro coined the term Low Tier, will your vote endorse it?

Enjoy:

http://fal-1.tripod.com/UA-Scandal.htm

Having been through three bankrupies with two different airlines, a furlough and taking a 65% paycut after 911, yeah, it’s pretty relative to me plus most of our first officers.

This pay raise will benefit many families. Many have had it a lot worse for too long than this supposed horrible contract offers.

Time to update your resume if the prospect of this new contract is too much to bear. I’m sure your family will support you on whatever decision you now make.

I’ll now deal with what this contract offers as I’ve successfully dealt with what this industry has dealt me over the years.

O yeah? So this contract means you will spend 6.6 more days per month on the road than you do now? Don't let the door hit you on the a$$ on your way out.

Attacking someone for questioning a yes vote for a low tier contract? :rolleyes:

Hear! Hear!

I'm curious... How do you figure? So many no voters are assuring me that we don't know what we are voting in until it happens. The whole Obama care thing... So which is it? Live sucks, or we don't know?

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Yo Dougie, you keep saying this. You even said it to me personally in another thread. Don't you see, the reason I'm voting NO is because I actually *enjoy* working here and do not want to leave. And I won't. Why do you think I feel so strongly about my vote? This is over 1/3 of my remaining career we're talking about. (8, if we're lucky, divided by 22.5)

Of course this TA, when it passes, (and it will) will make mine and my families life better. Heck, if you walked up to me and gave me a $20 bill it would make my families life just a little bit better. But I'm fully prepared to work under it. Heck, the money is already earmarked for home improvements.