Possible threat to Spirit Airlines
 

With Spirits business model being about low fares by cramming as many people in a plane as possible, this seems like it could hurt Spirit if fares have to be raised to offset the cost. Thoughts?

https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/news/2018/09/23/congress-faa-seat-width-legroom/1403488002/

I stopped reading when I saw USA Today.

Plane Coffee

Have you sat in American Economy lately?


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Yes, however I don’t think they would be effected as much by this.

Have to read an understand the full details, not click bait..

a) IN GENERAL.—Not later than 1 year after the
date of enactment of this Act, and after providing notice
and an opportunity for comment, the Administrator of the
Federal Aviation Administration shall issue regulations
that establish minimum dimensions for passenger seats on
aircraft operated by air carriers in interstate air transportation or intrastate air transportation, including minimums for seat pitch, width, and length, and that are necessary for the safety and health of passengers

FAA decides, not congress.

Key phrase "Safety and health of passengers". How many people has Spirit or other ULCC killed due to seat pitch?

Our seat width is more than many legacy carriers, especially against the 737 seat width.

So do I think the FAA will enact minimums for seat pitch and width that will require all airlines to make their seats fatter and pitch greater, causing billions of dollars in expenses for the airlines?

No, I do not think so.

Great click bait nonetheless

Good point.

I had a DH on AA and my god I thought it was Spirit! I was on a AA 319 and actually I thought I was on Spirit!! Very little difference now.

The difference is their fares are still much higher and the planes are old. Someone looked at the ULCC model and decided it was the new norm. Look at what the legacies are doing with bag fees....


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I work for Allegiant, and every time I deadhead or jumpseat on AA or DL, I can't believe how much more cramped their Airbi feel compared to those of the ULCCs. They have a lot of wide seats crammed into those planes, but way less of them than us, yet the plane still feels cramped and the aisles are narrow. I really don't think this is going to affect the ULCCs as much as the legacy carriers. If anything for economies of scale. They have a lot more planes to retrofit if a change is made than us.

But most likely, in true FAA fashion, they will pick a number slightly below whatever the smallest number currently is, so no one had to modify anything, then announce to congress and the public how much they improved safety and comfort.

Screw the government for getting involved in every business. If you don't like the legroom pony up for a company that gives you legroom. I don't want to see more regulations.

Amen!!!!!!

Exactly, who needs seatbelts, crash resistant seats, O2 masks and especially work and rest rules.

Yeah! Screw the O2 masks!!!

...but seriously, safety I’m all for but this is comfort we are talking about...Congress doesn’t need to get involved in that.

Mostly kidding, we are probably in the most regulated industry already. I think enough people will start voting with their wallet/feet if they try to make it anymore uncomfortable.

All of those regs are for safety. Comfortable does not mean safer. People can vote with wallets.

+1
When government sets the floor or standards of anything, innovation suffers as does competition.
The minimum becomes the standard in most cases...
Look at different bussines, from butter in the USA compared to overseas, to building standards in the USA...
The list goes on and on...

I think at some point putting 250 people in a bus or a 737 is a safety concern.

However, the problem with measuring minimum seat size by "pitch" is not right. The thickness of the seat is a huge factor that pitch does not account for. The ultra slimline seats on frontier actually give plenty of legroom with less pitch. I've sat on both united and AA economy recently and it's unquestionably less legroom than frontier. Comfy seats, but terrible legroom.

The FAA simply can't go with pitch, it's a bad metric to use

I agree, I regularly commute on Delta and when getting a regular coach seat on an MD88 my knees always hit the bar of the seatback magazine storage thing and it becomes uncomfortable very quickly. On Spirit my knees don't touch the seat in front of me even though the pitch is several inches less. Granted the Delta seats are probably more comfortable to sit on for someone who isn't 6 feet or taller. But the whole "lack of legroom" doesn't hold any weight in my opinion...

The FAA is going with pitch because the ULCCs have seats with fixed pitch. The legacies seats recline so while offering less leg room and width they offer more pitch. This is just the FAA placing their finger on the scale for the big airlines. As usual.

And again, the language at hand...

a) IN GENERAL.—Not later than 1 year after the date of enactment of this Act, and after providing notice and an opportunity for comment, the Administrator of the
Federal Aviation Administration shall issue regulations that establish minimum dimensions for passenger seats on aircraft operated by air carriers in interstate air transportation or intrastate air transportation, including minimums for seat pitch, width, and length, and that are necessary for the safety and health of passengers


It’s fun to speculate that the FAA wants to end ULCC, with zero evidence of this, but try to stick to facts. What are examples of “as usual” where the FAA enacts policy to favor legacy carriers while trying to hurt ULCC?

This is something that has me scratching my head; our seats have 28” pitch and American’s is 30”. Now, if your seat reclines 2” on AA, isn’t the pitch now 28” for the person behind you?

I think every airline is going to fight this. Even the big boys with their “30 inches of pitch”. No airline wants regulations. Even if they have no intention of shrinking their seats.


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Well Airlines For America, the lobbying group for the big boys, supports the house resolution.

http://airlines.org/news/airlines-for-america-statement-on-the-faa-reauthorization-bill/

In the end this seat pitch/width junk is 1 paragraph in 500+ pages of this bill. They (Airlines) aren’t worried about it because they know nothing is going to happen in regards to seat pitch width that will hurt them.

Meanwhile the bill has a ton a good things like finally setting standards on this service animal abuse we see

Then the FAA needs to rewrite the type certificate data sheets.
This is nothing more than a wellfare handout to the legacy carriers that can't compete in a free market.

no, because you can recline your seat 2 inches


"airline logic"

🤦🏻*♂️

Filler

How about the width of the seats? Ever have someone next to you try to squeeze into a seat that they just don’t fit in? I just love getting an arm or elbow in my chest and the fat from the torso flowing over the arm rest.

People are getting too big, wide, whatever. The 6 seats across the plane of any narrow body at any airline are too narrow. They should change it to a max of 5 PAX seating across the width of the plane with wider seats.

are you suggesting the airlines to take a 16% cut in revenue across their narrowbody fleet and somehow not go down kicking and screaming?

No, if that is the number, then I’m suggesting ticket prices are raised 16%. Your post was simply stupid.

you want 6 seats per row to become 5. that's a ~16% decrease in seats.

great job for calling me stupid when you can't even do the very simple math that YOU suggested.

bravo.

and when Delta decides to do it, and American doesn't, delta loses money because people will go for the cheaper ticket.


Yeah... great plan

I have dealt with Internet bully’s before. If you are in a bad mood great, I’m not going to be forced into a stupid moronic argument. Read my post.

What I said was that if a product cost a certain price, then airlines should charge that price.

Now I suggest you sit in the middle seat on a full flight and then let’s talk about it.

Good read.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/house...132500283.html

http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgMakeModel.nsf/0/0e970eccc4b0719e862582cf005b04bd/$FILE/A28NM_Rev_38.pdf

This link is what governs safety. (Airbus A320 family)
If the FAA wants to revise seating arrangements then they need to revise the TDS which they have already approved.