monthly credit
 

On average- what do year 1, 2, and 3 f/o's earn for pay credit hours? looking for a normal month shuffling schedule as needed for the best schedule and reasonable amount of days off. Reserve credit? Build up? line holder?

reserve is 72 period. hardly any way to make money on reserve. lineholders and relief get whatever they want. want 90 hours and 11 days off? cool, want 60 hours and 20 days off? cool.

I know a lot has changed since DOS and will change more with PBS. Under the old rules I raped and pillaged. One month I had 19 off with 135 credit! I know of very few FO's near DTW and when the $hit hit the fan and they needed someone all you had to do is tell them what it would take, I always told them the deal was only good while I was on the phone. Once they called me and I just happen to be staying 15 mins from the airport and I got JR man, move up and pay protected for a 4 day. All I had to do is fly 3 legs. I miss those good old wheeler dealer days...... :D

Living in base, and keeping track of open time / reserve availability list will make a difference. Along with how oftenyou put yourself on the x/y list.

Reserve is 72 and we gave up drops with new contract. So always 72.

Lines are 72-80 hours, there is zero open time after the first 10 seconds of DOT. So if you need a day off or don’t want to do a 4 day full of red eyes. Expect 50-60 hours credit at best.

I don’t know anyone who’s been called off the X list recently.

OOOk.

I have done maybe 1 redeye a month for the past 3 months, have kept 0 of my awarded trips, and just swapped a 4 day 3 days ago (well past DOT).

It's not the doom and gloom you describe

Umm, I'm reserve and I drop.

Better enjoy that now because once PBS starts you won’t be able to drop except one block a year.


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I think he may be referring to once PBS is implemented there will be no more RSV drops.

Not even close to the doom and gloom he described. I averaged 80+ hours a month on reserve. And it wasn’t because I was picking up credit on days off. That’s probably down right now as we are so fat on reserves, but that will change.

As a line holder you can work about as much as you want. It won’t always be pretty. There may be some red eyes. Last month I credited 86. This month will be 95. Or you can just take what the scheduler spits out and get 72-75.

Reserves haven't been used much for the last 3-4 months. To the point where some guys are or are very close to dequaling for landings. Expect 72 hour reserves, minus the days you drop.

Yeah. I know. Hence my comment about us being fat on reserves. And that will change as no company is going to staff that many extra pilots as a long term plan.

Which base is this? That’s where I want to go I credited over 80 last month (on the ca side).


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If you’re on reserve here you’re probably going to credit 72 hrs/month (+A321 override). Once you’re a line holder here, you can work as much or as little as you want. I’m a commuter and I enjoy my time at home. I average 85 hours per month. Some months I credit 110 while others I credit 60. If you live in base and like to work you can do pretty well here. I figure I leave at least $30k on the table/year (in the left seat) being a commuter. Depends on the month but I’ve consistantly received calls off the x list (premium flying) throughout the year. You’re more likely to get premium trips if you have large blocks of days off. The average amount of credit here at NK varies wildly but it all comes down to personal preference and whether you commute or live in base. The flexibility is what I love most about this place and is a big reason why I decided to make NK a career.

Eh, I have questions. First off how do you commute and enjoy your time at home as well as average 85 hours? Not saying life here isn't good but speaking from a 20ish percent FO, i know I don't get 85 hours per month with 20 days or so off per month. Is enjoying time at home like 13 days off?

I average 16 days off a month. Some months I have 19 days off and credit 60, others I have 14 days off and credit over 100. I’m top 50% in base although seniority doesn’t mean much here once you’re off reserve. The 85 includes the 321 override. I assure you I’m not the type to exaggerate my earnings. All it takes to bump that monthly average up is 4-5 x list trips a year (most of mine are two day trips). I guess it all depends on what you consider a reasonable amount of time off. If you like 20+ days off per month then it’s going to be very difficult to average 85 hours of credit per month.

That's fair. although saying 14 off gets you over 100 credit is embellishing. Call it what you will , that's what it is. A special month gets you that, not the average month seeing as 22.5 is a great 4 day trip here and 22.5 x 4 = 90 and that would be 14-15 days off per month.

You had me curious so I just ran the numbers. For 2018 I averaged 16.75 days off/month and 88 credit (including A321 override). That includes vacation (2 weeks), 4 x list trips and a few sick calls. And yes... you are correct, a 14 day off 100+ credit month includes a premium trip although I’m not embellishing. That’s the only way I’m willing to drop to 14 days off.

Fair enough, you actually seem too genuine for this site after that.

Lol... I despise people who exaggerate their earnings on this site. NK isn’t without its faults and we have some serious room for improvement in the next round but if we have one thing figured out here it’s schedule flexibility. I hear your frustration on our inefficient trips. As far as efficiency goes, that should improve with PBS implementation.

Under the rigs coming with PBS, a "real" 4-day (one that ends on day four after a whole day's work, ie end time is at least 8 hours after your day one start time) will credit no less than 23 hours. Working 12 days (3 real 4-days) will be a minimum of 92 hours. Throw in a "real" 2-day at 10 hours of credit and you're at 100+ for 14 days of work.

Best check that math...

Lol. Don’t get his hopes up.

3x23=????? Not 92

Swing and a miss on the “Schedule Flexibility” for the Reserve guys come PBS implementation time. :(

I was referring to line holders but yes you are correct reserves took a hit on this contract with the loss of the ability to drop. That being said, I spent a lot of time on reserve here and reserves have never had true schedule flexibility. Reserves have never been able to swap or pick up open time (although now they can put themselves on the x/y list so that’s an improvement from the CBA 2010). Hopefully this won’t be much of an issue with PBS implementation as reserves should have an easier time getting the days they need off on their initial bid award vs line bidding where you are bidding on pre-made lines.

How will a rsv be able to use float vacation?

Don’t fool yourself. There’s a reason the company allowed pbs. Pbs can easily be weaponized by the company.

How? Aren't you just a 1 year FO at Mesa?

They won’t (other than MFV). I’m assuming this was rhetorical and posted to make a point. The inability to drop for reserves is frustrating but was apparently a concession the majority of the group was willing to make. As much as I am disappointed in the loss of the ability of reserves to drop days, I still feel like reserve here is extremely tolerable if not desireable. We continue to have plenty of senior guys bidding reserve. I realize that we have yet to see PBS implementation and the total loss of the ability for reserves to drop, but I would bet a large sum of money that the senior guys bidding reserve now will continue to bid reserve under PBS. Let’s put it this way... if I lived in base I would most likely bid reserve every month here for the rest of my career.

So you see the point. Now how does a senior guy on rsv with the inability to use float vacation get his balance to 28hrs to roll over to the next year? If you cannot get it to 28 you either lose anything you have left above 28hrs or you are forced to take a payout at straight pay for all of it and you get to roll zero. So if you want to use float you have to know to bid a line ahead of time for that month which defeats the purpose of float (short notice). If you’re not senior enough to hold a line you’re screwed. And there will be situations in certain bases and seats where pilots could have the longevity to have substantial vacation banks but not the seniority to bid off rsv and utilize their vacation efficiently through float. Thus forcing a straight pay payout in November and rolling zero or losing any balance over 28 to roll. Also the forcing of using GFDs more often which don’t pay premium either.

I’m not certain what percentage of the pilot group this exact scenario could potentially affect but I would imagine it’s minuscule. Everybody has the ability to bid for all of their vacation as hard vacation weeks. Those who end up electing to reserve some vacation as float are doing so by choice. The ones who aren’t are those who are either upgrading or switching bases, at which point they are entitled to bid on any open vacation weeks in their new position. If they are unable to hold any open weeks, the 28 hour vacation carryover limit does not apply. This is all 100% seniority based as it should be. For those who don’t plan accordingly, GFD days are always available as a last ditch effort to burn that vacation down to 28. Did reserves take a hit with the inability to drop with CBA 2018? Yes, albeit much less dramatic a hit than some claim. Did the majority of the group feel this was a reasonable concession to make in exchange for the gains made elsewhere? Yes.

BTW... the smart move if you want to have a week of float at your disposal is to bid one of your weeks late in the year. If you’re senior enough to hold a line, you can burn that float prior to your scheduled November/December hard week of vacation. Worst case scenario, if you’re on the cusp of being a line holder you get your hard week of vacation awarded in November/December and don’t have to worry about exceeding 28 hours at years end.

It’s more about some guys wanting to be on rsv and use float all year long with minimal conflict on actual vacation weeks. It translates into over 100hrs of what is essentially PTO to use throughout the year on top of having your full vacation weeks off. Then always rolling as close to 28hrs as possible because it’s litterally worth more the following year unless we are amendable and at year 12. Being forced to bid some terrible 75hr credit line just to use a day or two of float vacation is silly. May as well just bid the line that has the actual day off if you knew about it ahead of time. Float is great because if something comes up with the family on short notice (after the bid award) you can just drop a single float day in there. You get to be there for the kids and it cost you 4hrs out of your bank instead of having to burn 20hrs and hope for four green days together.

Losing float on rsv will affect more senior guys than I think we realize. Still a small number yes but some of them will go back to bidding lines pushing others backward to rsv that maybe didn’t want it. A lot will determine how vacation days are credited and built under PBS in a vacation month. We didn’t get much on how that will be implemented other than there will be a ASA style “vacation low” type bid to get large blocks of days off.

For some it’s more about having our vacation weeks to take a week long trip with the kids and using the saved credit for float all year long not having three weeks off at one time and burning 50hrs of vacation bank.

I don’t necessarily disagree with any of this. Reserves definitely lost a tool in their belt under this CBA with the inability to drop reserve or use float vacation (other than MFV). We probably just disagree slightly on the extent of the impact here.

If you commute and don’t get commutable schedules, your actual time at home is reduced for the commute to and from work. The 22 hour 4 day trips seem to be mostly early report and late releases. It really becomes a choice, time at home VS monthly credit.

Looks like they are starting to post premium trips... very cool to actually see that column being used.