I was kinda wondering the same thing.

I’ve heard in several places. It’s possible that it’s all emanating from APC, but that seems unlikely.

I’m not sure subfleets matter to PBS. It matters for seniority to those in the various fleets, but the computer is simply tasked with crewing all the tails as efficiently as possible. So perhaps you need 300 total tails worth of savings created by crew being scheduled by PBS to offset the cost of running the system.

But that’s just reaching elbow deep.

Many single fleet regionals run PBS with less than 300 planes

Heck, XJT management wanted PBS so bad and rescheduling favored management even more than ours does here as well as transition language. Even at the peak the fleet was only 274 planes. I’ve got to assume that this 300 plane rumor is complete poppycock and there are efficiencies gained. Enough to pay for the new rigs after we already gave them transition, training, rescheduling, and most rsv drops for free? That’s the question.

The rigs aren’t even earth shattering. They are slightly below industry standard even. This management just wants to keep us low tier as long as possible. I thought we made our bed and they would be satisfied for for another five years of cost savings and stall for another three in negotiations. To be playing these games only a year in to a bottom industry contract that already saves them huge is just low brow.

Never attribute to malice that which can be readily explained by stupidity.

Was this posted between bike riding and lunch with the wife or general interneting?

Winter layovering

Regionals do out and back. Hub and spoke flying. We don’t do that. We are point to point. That COULD be why spirit won’t reap the supposed efficiencies til 300 planes.

Not all regionals do out and backs. The two regionals I worked for, at least doing delta flying, was a more “see the network sort of schedule.

Never underestimate the enemy. Bendo is smarter than that. Dollars to donuts, this delayed implementation was a planned strategy, not a mistake. Imagine the additional cost savings the company will enjoy during this delay, at no cost to the company. This guy has no problem lying to our faces then doing something completely different.

Plain and simple no he's not. He never ran a cost model on PBS verses Line bidding with the new rigs. I asked the Union if they did and the answer was no. Funny neither side wanted to spend the time or money on this topic. Yuri told him we would save money on PBS and that was taken at face value. That's the origin of this mess.

Don't you think it's rather naive to believe the company never conducted a detailed cost/benefit analysis of the implementation of such a financially significant aspect of the contract? I'm not buying it. What I am buying is that the longer said implementation takes, the more the company benefits, with next to no risk or cost.

It was Yuri selling PBS to Bendo as the magic wand to fix all Spirit Crew Scheduling problems. Put that together with what's happed in the meeting for PBS and its clear cost analysis was never done by either side. As I've said before I asked our union guys if it was done and the answer was no. :eek: ALPA didn't see the need.

They're not receiving any benefits from a system that isn't in place. You don't get more efficient use of pilots by continuing to use the old system, you get it when you start using the new system. So the company is also losing every month this drags out without implementation.

They’re likely saving $3-5M a month in pilot pay by not using the new rigs.

And saving tons of money from us losing the transition conflict without the new rigs in place. I'm not sure how or why the union agreed to this.

But not getting any increase in efficiency from PBS. So how does that all equal out? Are they losing more than $3-5M/month by not having PBS? I don't know the answer.

Fair point.

There were 3 negotiators and 9 MEC votes. 70% of @1500 eligible voters "agreed" to it.

What did the company hammer on the most? Transition conflict. They got that day one of this contract.

Perhaps the new credits and rigs will cost more than conflict did over time as we move towards 3000 + pilots. Oh well.

I was not here pre-contract. So inform me. My impression is that PBS and transition conflict changes were almost if not completely separate points of negotiation. One could happen without the other. So is the point on transition conflict savings really relevant when it comes to PBS?

PBS by default solves the transition conflict issue the company was having. Where we got bent over / out negotiated is when we agreed to give them the current transition conflict bandaid we have right now before getting our new rigs and duty day.


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This. Well said.

Well looks like only 4 upgrades still. Prolonged no push for hiring seems fishy. Looks like Fornaro did his job and Ted is just a placemaker for something to come.

Merger? Takeover? Buyout?

Is it true there is only one class in April for new hires?

Not sure about the new hire class I haven't looked. But we've only had about 4 upgrades a month since the contract was passed, so it's nothing news worthy at this point.

Five new hires start April 1

“Explosive growth”


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Incorrect! It slowed late summer.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/03/28/business/wow-air-scli-intl/index.html

I see more airbuses in our future!

That huge fleet of 11 NEOs

As an outsider looking in & trying to have a solid grasp of the current state of affairs of the contract, may I ask you to dumb this down for me?

I'm aware that the Spirit history books are full of boats named "Transition Conflict" and unfortunately (for the pilots) this lucrative source of income has been eliminated. Preferential bidding has been enacted as well as trip & duty rigs, among other contract provisions.

When I click on the Spirit airline profile, it shows all the new details, such as PBS, 12 days off /month, the 3.5:1 and 2:1 rigs, etc. Are you saying that some parts of the contract are valid and others not? For instance PBS is active but the rigs are not?

What does the new staffing model look like with no conflicts, PBS, leveled out reserve coverage, no RSV drops? Likely less than the historic ratio of 8.5 crews per A/C, but how low will it go?

As an outsider looking in & trying to have a solid grasp of the current state of affairs of the contract, may I ask you to simplify this for me?

I'm aware that the Spirit history books are full of boats named "Transition Conflict" and unfortunately (for the pilots) this lucrative source of income has been eliminated. Preferential bidding has been enacted as well as trip & duty rigs, among other contract provisions.

When I click on the Spirit airline profile, it shows all the new details, such as PBS, 12 days off /month, the 3.5:1 and 2:1 rigs, etc. Are you saying that some parts of the contract are valid and others not? For instance PBS is active but the rigs are not?

tl;dr Explain for someone if they were to start at Spirit come Monday morning what they would expect.

Thank you for the useful gouge.

$750.month plus $1000 per diem until completion of ioe is the part of the contract that applies to someone who starts Monday.

6on 1 off until you complete indoc.
Then your schedule is subject to FTD/sim availability.

Thank you.

2nd year pay question, every company seems to do it differently:

For Spirit:
Say it takes 3 months to get done with everything, including IOE.

Is the pay anniversary from DOH or that moment?

In other words, would it be:
3 months of 750 + $1000
9 months of 1st year pay
Begin 2nd year pay after 12 months total on property?

Or
3 months of 750 + $1000
12 full months of 1st year pay
Begin 2nd year pay 12 months after ioe?

Thanks

The first scenario

The rigs do not go live until PBS is live. We are still doing mock bids and there is some disagreement between Alpa and the company on how rigs are paid. It should go to expedited arbitration but there is another disagreement on whether rigs count as an expedited arbitration per the pbs agreement. So that's where we are right now. PBS live is stalled, no rigs yet.

What is the difference in the interpretation of how rigs are paid?

The company seems to think the rigs don’t apply in the event a pilot is rescheduled.

And the only reason they wouldn’t want expedited arbitration which was previously agreed to is because they want to stall and don’t think they’ll win. If they thought they would win wouldn’t they just want to go to expedited arbitration and be done with it. All airline management likes to stall in negotiations but this group is something special. they fight us on the most trivial things even outside of negotiations just to have months waiting for arbitration only to lose or usually just give in the day before the arbitration so they don’t have the loss on their record when we have to mediate in section 6. Saving millions along the way.

No interest in building good will whatsoever.

And I hope this isn't lost on us all in our day to day operations.

How many new hires a month are you seeing?