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-   -   Ability to waive below 4 days off (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/spirit/125131-ability-waive-below-4-days-off.html)

YourMom 11-03-2019 04:23 AM

Keep the ability to waive 4 days off or I think rep heads will roll if they vote not to waive.

Qotsaautopilot 11-03-2019 08:44 AM


Originally Posted by YourMom (Post 2917007)
Keep the ability to waive 4 days off or I think rep heads will roll if they vote not to waive.

Short term pain for long term gain.

RemoveB4flght 11-03-2019 11:17 AM

It’s a misnomer when people say we “gave up” 4 days off with “nothing in return”

The only way 4 days off affected the company was to restrict how they built hard lines. All that went out the window with PBS.

Now it’s just another option like any other set condition, and it really doesn’t affect the company one way or the other.

The only real affect is that “line holder” seniority is not at black and white as it was with line bidding. Some pilots on the edge of holding a line may improve their chances if they waive as PBS has more flexibility for assigning enough trips to meet the credit window, and others who hold on to the 4 day minimum may have to settle for a Reserve like.

Qotsaautopilot 11-03-2019 03:16 PM


Originally Posted by RemoveB4flght (Post 2917236)
It’s a misnomer when people say we “gave up” 4 days off with “nothing in return”

The only way 4 days off affected the company was to restrict how they built hard lines. All that went out the window with PBS.

Now it’s just another option like any other set condition, and it really doesn’t affect the company one way or the other.

The only real affect is that “line holder” seniority is not at black and white as it was with line bidding. Some pilots on the edge of holding a line may improve their chances if they waive as PBS has more flexibility for assigning enough trips to meet the credit window, and others who hold on to the 4 day minimum may have to settle for a Reserve like.

Now I don’t know but it would seem to me that the company would be able to push the credit window higher with the same amount or less pilots than with the 4 day off requirement in place for everyone. We’re are currently setting historical credit window standards for future years and if we have a lot of pilots waiving we are able to inflate the credit window that wouldn’t be achievable without waiving. This is why the 4 days off was important under line bidding. Since we have low min days off at 13 it kept the company from building every line at 13 days off. The solution wasn’t possible. It had to build a bunch with more than 13 days off. That created a need for higher staffing or more premium pay. I can only imagine that making the ability to waive permanent with trigger the company to use the data they already have on waiving to push the window higher and lower staffing.

Omniscient 11-03-2019 03:40 PM

Sorry but I’m enjoying my weekends off. This wasn’t the case with line bidding and mandatory 4 days off.

As a mid level bidder, the kind everyone said would not benefit from PBS, I’ve been loving the results of PBS. I have had better schedules with PBS than I ever had line bidding

RemoveB4flght 11-03-2019 03:40 PM


Originally Posted by Qotsaautopilot (Post 2917359)
Now I don’t know but it would seem to me that the company would be able to push the credit window higher with the same amount or less pilots than with the 4 day off requirement in place for everyone. We’re are currently setting historical credit window standards for future years and if we have a lot of pilots waiving we are able to inflate the credit window that wouldn’t be achievable without waiving. This is why the 4 days off was important under line bidding. Since we have low min days off at 13 it kept the company from building every line at 13 days off. The solution wasn’t possible. It had to build a bunch with more than 13 days off. That created a need for higher staffing or more premium pay. I can only imagine that making the ability to waive permanent with trigger the company to use the data they already have on waiving to push the window higher and lower staffing.

This has more to do with pairing construction, monthly pairing frequency, and rig than with consecutive days off.

Pilots doing this aren’t waiving total number number of days off, rather increasing the the opportunities for PBS to award pairings.

I would want to see some concrete data that shows the flexibility that waiving provides is consistently detrimental to lifestyle before giving it up.

Flightcap 11-03-2019 08:42 PM


Originally Posted by Qotsaautopilot (Post 2917359)
Now I don’t know but it would seem to me that the company would be able to push the credit window higher with the same amount or less pilots than with the 4 day off requirement in place for everyone. We’re are currently setting historical credit window standards for future years and if we have a lot of pilots waiving we are able to inflate the credit window that wouldn’t be achievable without waiving. This is why the 4 days off was important under line bidding. Since we have low min days off at 13 it kept the company from building every line at 13 days off. The solution wasn’t possible. It had to build a bunch with more than 13 days off. That created a need for higher staffing or more premium pay. I can only imagine that making the ability to waive permanent with trigger the company to use the data they already have on waiving to push the window higher and lower staffing.

The union guys haven't been willing to share the specific data. But every union guy I've talked to who has seen the data says that models show very similar staffing levels with or without the waiver.


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