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The Spirit of Freedom
No mandate. Testing option given. Hope SWA is listening. 👍🏻
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Originally Posted by poopooplatter
(Post 3307354)
No mandate. Testing option given. Hope SWA is listening. 👍🏻
we stand with all our brothers and sisters at SWA. have a happy Columbus Day!!! |
Until/unless OSHA gets off their fat @$$€$ and actually mandates this, it’s all smoke. I personally believe everybody over age 30 OUGHT to be vaccinated but no one ought to be MANDATED to get vaccinated. But if there is going to be a mandate, it ought to be LEGALLY MANDATED, not just a press release that those opposed to it can’t challenge in court because there is nothing in writing to BE challenged.
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Did I miss a new email?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
Originally Posted by flyingpuma1
(Post 3307399)
Did I miss a new email?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
I wouldn’t get too excited yet. They haven’t formally announced any testing/vaccine mandate vs mandate only. I read Ted’s email and yes he does mention testing/vaccination, he also said a plan will be announced going forward
My guess, is the logistics involved in crew testing/tracking and pulling crews who don’t submit test, tests positive, or late lab results, coupled with Spirit never having enough support staff for anything, will be enough for Spirit to not offer a testing option. Just my guess, we will see soon enough. But I’ve never known this company to select an option that included more paperwork for their understaffed departments while compounding the opportunities for flight cancellations/disruptions |
They can’t even get their random pee test right.
the FO opened the cockpit door and then told me I had a random pee test. Okay after everyone deplaned and I filed out I found that they also snagged two of my FAs and so the contractor called me by my name and nope that is not me. He didn’t believe me even after I showed him my ID. The capt he was looking for was on the plane but he was deadheading out of uniform so he slipped passed the guy and got away. so that’s a plus to be deadheading out of uniform. I guess the guy saw Capt so and so on the notification paperwork and assumed that the captain was going to be in the flight deck and not one of the 6 other captains deadheading on board the flight. |
Originally Posted by bruhaha
(Post 3307535)
They can’t even get their random pee test right.
the FO opened the cockpit door and then told me I had a random pee test. Okay after everyone deplaned and I filed out I found that they also snagged two of my FAs and so the contractor called me by my name and nope that is not me. He didn’t believe me even after I showed him my ID. The capt he was looking for was on the plane but he was deadheading out of uniform so he slipped passed the guy and got away. so that’s a plus to be deadheading out of uniform. I guess the guy saw Capt so and so on the notification paperwork and assumed that the captain was going to be in the flight deck and not one of the 6 other captains deadheading on board the flight. |
Originally Posted by CincoDeMayo
(Post 3307472)
I wouldn’t get too excited yet. They haven’t formally announced any testing/vaccine mandate vs mandate only. I read Ted’s email and yes he does mention testing/vaccination, he also said a plan will be announced going forward
My guess, is the logistics involved in crew testing/tracking and pulling crews who don’t submit test, tests positive, or late lab results, coupled with Spirit never having enough support staff for anything, will be enough for Spirit to not offer a testing option. Just my guess, we will see soon enough. But I’ve never known this company to select an option that included more paperwork for their understaffed departments while compounding the opportunities for flight cancellations/disruptions |
OP needs some reading comprehension. This issue has not been decided. I honestly don’t think they even care about us bc when push comes to shove we will do whatever is required on this topic bc very few will throw away their career over it.
I think they’re more worried about losing a ton of below the wing and above the wing airport staff when they need them most. Also FAs |
Originally Posted by Excargodog
(Post 3307377)
Until/unless OSHA gets off their fat @$$€$ and actually mandates this, it’s all smoke. I personally believe everybody over age 30 OUGHT to be vaccinated but no one ought to be MANDATED to get vaccinated. But if there is going to be a mandate, it ought to be LEGALLY MANDATED, not just a press release that those opposed to it can’t challenge in court because there is nothing in writing to BE challenged.
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Originally Posted by jacinth
(Post 3308033)
The osha issue is for companies greater than 100 and allows a testing option. The Biden EO for contractors is insane overreach. Those powers are to the states or to the people. The fed does not have this authority. And really, these companies should be standing up to it. My personal opinion is there is no reason for anyone under the age of 65 to get vaccinated unless at high risk. Which is what should have happened.
a. From a lab in Wuhan China b. From a bat in Laos that flew to Wuhan China (distance 1700 miles) in one night (take your pick) and unless you are thirty or younger you probably don’t want your first exposure to COVID antigens to be the live virus itself because first exposures to NOVEL viruses tend to not go well. But having said that since you are an adult, I’d no more force you to take an immunization than I’d force a Jehovah’s Witness to take a blood transfusion. And since your kids are at negligible risk, no problem there either. |
Originally Posted by jacinth
(Post 3308033)
The osha issue is for companies greater than 100 and allows a testing option. The Biden EO for contractors is insane overreach. Those powers are to the states or to the people. The fed does not have this authority. And really, these companies should be standing up to it.
For all we know the airlines *asked* the WH to do this... that's how we got the old age 60 limit.
Originally Posted by jacinth
(Post 3308033)
My personal opinion is there is no reason for anyone under the age of 65 to get vaccinated unless at high risk. Which is what should have happened.
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All I’d like to know is the what if I have, albeit rare, an adverse reaction and cannot obtain a medical or something is responsible for me losing my medical. Who is responsible and what in the hell do I do now since it wasn’t a choice anymore? Any speculation from anyone?
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Originally Posted by gatorbait77
(Post 3308169)
All I’d like to know is the what if I have, albeit rare, an adverse reaction and cannot obtain a medical or something is responsible for me losing my medical. Who is responsible and what in the hell do I do now since it wasn’t a choice anymore? Any speculation from anyone?
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Originally Posted by offmyrocker
(Post 3308187)
you ask the union that very question? I am wondering the same question.
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Originally Posted by gatorbait77
(Post 3308169)
All I’d like to know is the what if I have, albeit rare, an adverse reaction and cannot obtain a medical or something is responsible for me losing my medical. Who is responsible and what in the hell do I do now since it wasn’t a choice anymore? Any speculation from anyone?
I’d assume you’d just apply for long term disability/loss of medical insurance, just like everyone else that gets sick and can’t work anymore. |
Originally Posted by TrojanCMH
(Post 3308244)
I’d assume you’d just apply for long term disability/loss of medical insurance, just like everyone else that gets sick and can’t work anymore.
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Originally Posted by gatorbait77
(Post 3308169)
All I’d like to know is the what if I have, albeit rare, an adverse reaction and cannot obtain a medical or something is responsible for me losing my medical. Who is responsible and what in the hell do I do now since it wasn’t a choice anymore? Any speculation from anyone?
The courts will be sorting out that question - and many others - three years from now. Same for the ‘no foreclosures’ and ‘no evictions’ mandates. Sort of like that the Danish Minister that ordered the killing of ten million mink when there was nothing in law giving him or anyone else that authority. Somebody will have to pay - probably the Danish government. Danish Prime Minister Mette Frederiksen has appointed a new agriculture minister after Mogens Jensen resigned for illegally ordering the culling of all minks in Denmark. Development Cooperation Minister Rasmus Prehn has been selected to take over from Jensen. The mass cull was ordered after a mutated form of coronavirus was found in the mink population. Dead mink are rising from their graves in Denmark after a rushed cull over fears of a coronavirus mutation led to thousands being slaughtered and buried in shallow pits – from which some are now emerging. “As the bodies decay, gases can be formed,” Thomas Kristensen, a national police spokesman, told the state broadcaster DR. “This causes the whole thing to expand a little. In this way, in the worst cases, the mink get pushed out of the ground.” Police in West Jutland, where several thousand mink were buried in a mass grave on a military training field, have tried to counter the macabre phenomenon by shovelling extra soil on top of the corpses, which are in a 1 metre-deep trench. “This is a natural process,” Kristensen said. “Unfortunately, one metre of soil is not just one metre of soil –it depends on what type of soil it is. The problem is that the sandy soil in West Jutland is too light. So we have had to lay more soil on top.” Adding to the popular concern, local media reported that the animals may also have been buried too close to lakes and underground water reserves, prompting fears of possible contamination of ground and drinking water supplies. Photos and videos of the emerging bodies have set social media buzzing in Denmark, with one Twitter user calling 2020 “the year of the zombie mutant killer mink” and another calling on the population to “run … The mink are coming for you.” |
Originally Posted by gatorbait77
(Post 3308258)
while that thought was in my head as a possible outcome I would hope that would be until retirement date with my retirement contribution added to those benefits. As previously stated, the possibility of this happening is slim but it probably should be something we need to be prepared for. Just some guidance or a plan or an answer on responsibility would be nice.
What happens if you lose your medical due to unforeseen Covid complications or some random illness that you get? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
Originally Posted by rickair7777
(Post 3308147)
The companies WANT their employees to be vaccinated, they are perfectly happy to have the fed play bad cop on this. Saves liability, cost, and operational disruption
For all we know the airlines *asked* the WH to do this... that's how we got the old age 60 limit. ^^^ SHACK!!! ^^^ |
Originally Posted by TrojanCMH
(Post 3308265)
What happens if you lose your medical due to unforeseen Covid complications or some random illness that you get?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
The Spirit of Freedom
Originally Posted by gatorbait77
(Post 3308522)
i would 100% not be looking at the company as that would just be “part of life.” I made the choice to not protect myself in that instance. That same option won’t be available to us in the near future it seems. I think ahead, I like to be prepared if that’s possible in this case.
We have loss of medical and LTD insurance for a reason. It isn’t the company you’re “asking”. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
Originally Posted by TrojanCMH
(Post 3308693)
We have loss of medical and LTD insurance for a reason. It isn’t the company you’re “asking”.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Way better than what we had and you’re still eating but let’s not pretend it’s a good deal. I think he’s saying there is a lot of downside to being on LTD and to end up there for a reason you not only didn’t choose but were forced in to should carry some liability for the company. |
Originally Posted by dualinput
(Post 3308832)
You lose any future retirement contributions which if you’re young is huge. You also take a 40% paycut with no opportunity to make outside money. If you took EIL last year and end up on LTD this year your forever benefit is based off that 2020 W2 so you get double F’d. Oh and you lose your health insurance after five years.
Way better than what we had and you’re still eating but let’s not pretend it’s a good deal. I think he’s saying there is a lot of downside to being on LTD and to end up there for a reason you not only didn’t choose but were forced in to should carry some liability for the company. I’m not saying it would be a good position to find yourself in. Just saying that if you lose your medical from long term complications of the Covid virus or the Covid vaccine or by getting hit by a bus there are options and you’re not thrown out on the street. It would be nice if the company took on some of the liability if they do force this on us eventually. I also agree that we should try and negotiate a DC while on LTD during our upcoming negotiations. |
Originally Posted by dualinput
(Post 3308832)
You lose any future retirement contributions which if you’re young is huge. You also take a 40% paycut with no opportunity to make outside money. If you took EIL last year and end up on LTD this year your forever benefit is based off that 2020 W2 so you get double F’d. Oh and you lose your health insurance after five years.
Way better than what we had and you’re still eating but let’s not pretend it’s a good deal. I think he’s saying there is a lot of downside to being on LTD and to end up there for a reason you not only didn’t choose but were forced in to should carry some liability for the company. |
Originally Posted by JulesWinfield
(Post 3308911)
I'm pretty sure our LTD pays out as long as you don't get another flying job. So if you start a programming job or work at Starbucks, it will still pay out until 65.
You work at Starbucks, the LTD is offset. But to the other point, it isn’t really a 40% pay cut, as someone else mentioned. The portion you pay for a buy up is not taxed since it’s funded with after tax money. So if you qualify for an $8k buy up over the $5k standard, the $5k will be taxed and the $8k will essentially be tax free. (There is a small variation due to the fact the premiums for the buy up for the company increase annually which changes the buy up tax status a few bucks, but minor) We made huge gains in the LTD section this contract and it should be something we continue to work on this contract Healthcare for LTD over 5 years DC for LTD on LTD No Offset of benefits for outside non flying jobs |
Originally Posted by CincoDeMayo
(Post 3308953)
No, it doesn’t pay against any reported income.
You work at Starbucks, the LTD is offset. |
Originally Posted by JulesWinfield
(Post 3308963)
We have Own Occupation LTD, which means it applies to our specific occupation. There's a list of offsets, like worker's comp and other disability insurance, but I'm pretty sure outside income will not offset it, as long as it is a different occupation. Shoot a DART through the ALPA app to get clarification. I could be wrong, so verify it.
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Originally Posted by rickair7777
(Post 3308147)
The companies WANT their employees to be vaccinated, they are perfectly happy to have the fed play bad cop on this. Saves liability, cost, and operational disruption (if you have a covid exposure in an un-vaccinated work group, they all get two weeks off at company expense... even though most of them won't die).
For all we know the airlines *asked* the WH to do this... that's how we got the old age 60 limit. |
Originally Posted by JulesWinfield
(Post 3308963)
We have Own Occupation LTD, which means it applies to our specific occupation. There's a list of offsets, like worker's comp and other disability insurance, but I'm pretty sure outside income will not offset it, as long as it is a different occupation. Shoot a DART through the ALPA app to get clarification. I could be wrong, so verify it.
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Originally Posted by BKbigfish
(Post 3309126)
Any future income offsets dollar for dollar. We have many holes in our current LTD but this is the biggest one. This absolutely needs to be addressed in this next CBA. Medical and DC to retirement age on LTD would be good to get as well but we have to fix this income offset issue.
Sadly it’s hard for pilots to ask for this in polling and surveys when most don’t even know we have offset income |
Originally Posted by CincoDeMayo
(Post 3308984)
It Offsets. This was covered when the contract was being discussed on town halls
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Talk to a fellow pilot who has been thru this journey, especially a first officer… it’s not good. We almost need them to share their testimony at union events…
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