Baby Bus for market advantage
 

JB makes it work. Airbus seems motivated to appeal to others with a similar model. Better keep an eye on who they are meeting with.

https://onemileatatime.com/insights/...us-a220-miami/

I'm confused as to what this has to do with Spirit?

Absolutely nothing! Lol

Haha. OR…Spirit takes the 319neos, which beat the 220 in many areas, and enjoys the benefits of the single fleet type.

In what areas exactly?

https://i.ibb.co/GvmRLhq/1-E4-DCB28-...8-C99-EFE7.jpg

Range
Payload
Training commonality
Parts commonality
Parts availability

Reading into the story, this aircraft is here in the states, for the purpose of demo and promotion.

It’s unlikely they are pitching the 220 to DL or JB. Can’t imagine SWA or Alaska is interested either. It would be hard to believe that Airbus isn’t attempting to sell their latest and greatest to one of their best customers. Haven’t done the numbers yet but the combined NK/F9 fleet may become one of the world’s largest narrow bus operators?

NK/F9 may change the 319 NEO orders to the 321NEOs that F9 prefers leaving a gap for the smaller planes to serve certain markets and perhaps be better specialized for use one some markets that the regionals no longer cover? Just spitballing.

How do you make a profit at low margins? Quantity.

F9 has been moving towards more 321s. The time, effort and manpower to operate and turn a smaller capacity aircraft is going to very similar to a larger one in the same ballpark of size. I'd be willing to bet it makes a whole lot more sense to operate fewer large aircraft than more small aircraft...

I believe you mean “Volume”. However, sheer volume alone, won’t cut it in the economy model. Efficiency is Spirits secret weapon. Could fill every seat and never make a dime. Lower your costs and the BELF becomes easier to obtain.

The ULCC bean counters are different than those of the legacies.

I think I read that it was going to begin a demo tour in Mexico and Central/South America. AeroMexico would be a natural choice given its ties to Delta and their purchasing power and maintenance support.

I believe Spirit already shut the door on the A220 in favor of the A319NEO but you never know….

If this merger happens, I wonder what will happen to the A319NEO order? Maybe it’s time to order another 100 A220s…. ;)

Once again, the advantages of parts commonality might well trump whatever advantages would occur with the A220 aircraft, but then it also depends on what the plan is. NK has been largely point to point ULCC. Bigger might be better under the merger, and it would be fairly easy to convert 319NEO orders to 320 or even 321NEO orders at this stage. Clearly, one of the reasons B6 wanted to purchase NK was for their order book. The B6 320s are starting to be a little long in the tooth and mostly CEOs. Getting to jump the line on new 320 family NEOs would be a big help, even if they ultimately bought more 220s as well.

https://i.ibb.co/mGpfQVW/6-B815-FED-...D495-D25-E.jpg


https://i.ibb.co/1vK4Thh/F01-A2-B48-...82-AFB0755.jpg

Oh look, the Bombardier sales rep is back again.

But seriously, the magic of the 220 isn't the range, payload, or technology, it's the fuel burn. Airbus numbers with RJ fuel burns. The problem is it's probably not worth starting a new fleet type just for that, and Boeing is practically giving MAX's away with similar or better numbers. That's why we gave the CS100/A220 a serious look at allegiant but then went with the Boeing.

Another notable issue is the training and maintenance. The C Series is an Airbus in name only. There's zero training or parts commonality with a real Airbus. May as well take a highly discounted MAX if you're in the market for a completely different fleet from what you already have. I think the only reason Delta has been successful with that jet is because they got them at a steep discount after the trade dispute, and used them to replace large RJs on long thin RJ routes. ULCCs don't have that kind of business model.

Internal pocket session from JB management to JB employees said NK is converting the 319NEO to 320NEOs.

So for JB it would have been a 150 seater 319 or a 162 seater 320

Is the 12 extra seats worth it?

The 319 isn't a 150 seat airplane in JB seating configuration. More like 132-138.

Why in the world keep the 220 then? Dump it and go all airbus.

The A220 averages a burn of 1,400lbs less per hour than a 320NEO. At JB utilization levels it burns about 3,000 gallons less per plane, per day.

And the 319neo?

Carrying 50% fewer passengers.

At a nominal $3 per gallon you are carrying 50% more passengers on every trip for an incremental cost of $9000 per day.

https://i.ibb.co/wJYDXvc/AE4728-AE-5...-AE66-E235.jpg

Given the fixed costs of a second fleet in training, sims, parts and maintenance logistics, I’m not sure a $9000 a day fuel savings actually justifies the second type and outside of one FA, there are really no personnel savings. Well, a couple bucks an hour on the A220 vs A320 pilot rate I guess. I suppose you could make the case for ONLY flying the A220, but any airline having a fleet of 300 or so of those is well in the future whereas NK and B6 both have an order book of 320 variants lined up and a sunk investment in existing spares and training.

Where are you getting 50% fewer passengers? B6 A320s carry 162 and their A220s carry 140.

Airbus Company literature:

https://i.ibb.co/GvmRLhq/1-E4-DCB28-...8-C99-EFE7.jpg

But yeah, if it’s 220-300s it’s a comparable load to a 319. Still don’t know if it’s worth the training and logistics costs of going two fleet though. And again, nobody is going to have a huge fleet of A220s any time soon.

Now do the A319NEO. Who is going to have huge fleets of those?

Arguments like this is why people believe pilots are stupid.

1. What’s the parts, maintenance, and training commonality between the 319 and the rest of the 320 series?
2. What’s the parts, maintenance, and training commonality between the A220 and the BULK of the JetBlue fleet which IS A320s, and will be even moreso 320 series if/when they complete the acquisition of NK?
3. And, as I said, the 319NEO orders are convertible to 320NEOs easily enough at this stage.

Arguments like yours are why management believes pilots know nothing about running an airline.

You do a great job of proving their point.

Delta probably has 60-70 A220-100/300s by now with more on the way with a recent bump-up order at Farnborough. I personally think Robin is lobbying hard for Airbus to kickstart the A220-500 (stretched version with even better CASM) program but the industry press is saying that Airbus likely won’t officially launch it until 2024/2025. I could see Robin angling to be the A220-500 launch customer in a few years.

As someone who has also flown on the JB A220 as a pax several times, I can personally vouch for it from the passenger ergonomics standpoint. Much better than any current Spirit offering and more comfortable than any non-MINT JB product. Perhaps JB will get more 220s through a possible future Breeze merger…

I will just add that JB already has an A220-300 program up and running. That horse is already out of the barn. The A220-300 does have better economics than an A319NEO, and there may be many routes that don't need the capacity of an A320NEO.

But I also think you fail to look just a little further into the future, with the inevitable launch of the A220-500, which will have been economics than the A320NEO with similar capacity. With a future fleet of 600+ aircraft, they can have two fleet types if they want, and probably works out better for some/much of the pilot group to spread out seniority a little bit.

I struggle to see a role for the A319 in the fleet 3-5yrs post merger. I would be very very surprised if the 319neo was ever delivered to NK/JB.

The A220-500 will be a workhorse and no doubt we see it replace a lot of our current A320ceo capacity.

The most economical variant of any given airframe is the one that holds the most pax. A321 vs A319, A220-500 vs A220-100

If Spirit takes a A319NEO before the merger, maybe. But there is NO way JB takes a A319NEO if none are in the combined fleet.

Yep.

The future of JetBlue is eventually an all 220(multiple variants) and 321 airline. It’s gonna take a while but that is the way we are headed. Especially if the 220-500 comes along soon.


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Looks like Spirit already has 55 A320NEOs in the fleet. They would also stay.

I wonder if AA will buy up all of these used A319. They have stated they don’t want any A220. After all, they have A319s.

My crystal ball says AA will change their minds in a few years. They will want A220s, for several reasons, not the least of which is many of their A319s are getting old.

I also think AA will change their mind towards the A220, but we’ll see. Isn’t the avg age of the NK A319s getting up there too?

https://ir.spirit.com/resources/fleet-plan/default.aspx

Stating the obvious to some of you here.
Spirit has always said that any of the 320 series orders can be executed as 319 or 320 or 321, but as of now the fleet plan specifically shows only 320neo and 321neo orders.
I don't recall ever seeing any specific 319neos in the fleet plan. The 319s are getting a little long in the tooth, but I flew a 319 and a 320 yesterday and the 320 was a pig and the 319 was a peach.
Another tidbit, a few years ago United was scrounging for second hand 319s and picked up a bunch from China. The Spirit 319s were also slated to head to United, but it never happened.

https://i.ibb.co/rwnmXkT/4-F35-DE77-...AA6644-DF5.jpg

Airbus too is having supply chain problems affecting their deliveries which are currently running about 90% of their nominal capacity. The 320 series still massively dominates their order book and current deliveries.