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Old 04-07-2022, 05:18 AM
  #141  
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Old 04-07-2022, 05:20 AM
  #142  
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Originally Posted by SirHelios View Post
As much as I love drop to zero, and I use it, it's totally dependent on reserve coverage, even in IOT. With attrition the way it is, it's going to be impossible going forward.

Long view, B6 is a better pairing for us. We are going to have to drag F9 up to us- pay, rules, etc. (I love you F9 guys, just being pragmatic, here). B6 already has the better pay, we have the rules, and both groups are committed and have the backbone to not taking any feces from management. We're ****ed and ready to brawl. For the long haul CBA fight that looms ahead, it's a stronger team.
Not that we have any say in this but I completely agree with the above. A marriage with F9/Franke would all but solidify us as the lowest paid A320 operators for many years to come.
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Old 04-07-2022, 05:24 AM
  #143  
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Originally Posted by Cyio View Post
I will be honest, this fabled drop zero and green day stuff is just legend, perhaps myth at this point in time. I have yet to see either of it. FO blocks have been red and it appears to stay that way for the foreseeable future.
Just to give everyone the bigger picture, this only applies to line holders. Reserves cannot drop or even swap reserve days.
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Old 04-07-2022, 05:27 AM
  #144  
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Originally Posted by SirHelios View Post
As much as I love drop to zero, and I use it, it's totally dependent on reserve coverage, even in IOT. With attrition the way it is, it's going to be impossible going forward.
Don't cut your nose off to spite your face.

In other words don't be so short sighted.

Just because you can't use it today doesn't mean you won't be able to use it tomorrow. Anyone that would give up anything in a contract without some kind of EXTRAORDINARY gain somewhere else is a fool at best. Remember we used to get 5 hours extra pay for a 20 hour overnight and now its 24 hours and what did we get in return? Because people that didn't take advantage of it said, I don't care if we give it away. (hint, and I'm glad to be proven wrong) we didn't get anything of huge value for that tradeoff.
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Old 04-07-2022, 05:40 AM
  #145  
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Originally Posted by PleaseComplete View Post
Don't cut your nose off to spite your face.

In other words don't be so short sighted.

Just because you can't use it today doesn't mean you won't be able to use it tomorrow. Anyone that would give up anything in a contract without some kind of EXTRAORDINARY gain somewhere else is a fool at best. Remember we used to get 5 hours extra pay for a 20 hour overnight and now its 24 hours and what did we get in return? Because people that didn't take advantage of it said, I don't care if we give it away. (hint, and I'm glad to be proven wrong) we didn't get anything of huge value for that tradeoff.
I don’t recall anyone saying we should get rid of it, I was just pointing out that until attrition stops it will be of little value to half the pilot group.

Im fully aware the CA side is green, but the FO not so much. I guess it’s great we are upgrading quickly, oh wait, nvm.
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Old 04-07-2022, 05:48 AM
  #146  
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Originally Posted by Cyio View Post
I will be honest, this fabled drop zero and green day stuff is just legend, perhaps myth at this point in time. I have yet to see either of it. FO blocks have been red and it appears to stay that way for the foreseeable future.
Which is an industry wide problem currently. The incentivized early retirements at some of the legacies and the fast SnapBack of post pandemic demand have condemned all of us to a few years of having to work our @$$es off. Meanwhile, the regionals are dying because they aren’t keeping people long enough to upgrade enough CAs to keep going. Which means they’ll need MORE hires at majors to recapture that flying which will - for the short term at least - make everything even worse.

It’s a weird world right now.
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Old 04-07-2022, 05:49 AM
  #147  
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Originally Posted by PleaseComplete View Post
Don't cut your nose off to spite your face.

In other words don't be so short sighted.

Just because you can't use it today doesn't mean you won't be able to use it tomorrow. Anyone that would give up anything in a contract without some kind of EXTRAORDINARY gain somewhere else is a fool at best. Remember we used to get 5 hours extra pay for a 20 hour overnight and now its 24 hours and what did we get in return? Because people that didn't take advantage of it said, I don't care if we give it away. (hint, and I'm glad to be proven wrong) we didn't get anything of huge value for that tradeoff.
It was 4.5 hours of pay for a 22.5 hour overnight.. fwiw.
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Old 04-07-2022, 06:05 AM
  #148  
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I maybe in the minority , but I want nothing to do with JetBlue merger. Respect the company and product. Have many friends there. But looking 5,10 years down the road I think F9 and the potential of the ULCC power it could be makes the most sense. B6 will be stagnation station. I think the Cultures, product, business model is so divergent it makes so little sense to me. I think the chance of a getting B6 approved is small.
much smaller than F9. My Guess we will turn down the offer and go worth the original F9 for a multitude of reasons. And I think that’ll be the right move. That’s my prediction. Guess we shall see
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Old 04-07-2022, 06:22 AM
  #149  
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Originally Posted by FlyGuy2002 View Post
I maybe in the minority , but I want nothing to do with JetBlue merger. Respect the company and product. Have many friends there. But looking 5,10 years down the road I think F9 and the potential of the ULCC power it could be makes the most sense. B6 will be stagnation station. I think the Cultures, product, business model is so divergent it makes so little sense to me. I think the chance of a getting B6 approved is small.
much smaller than F9. My Guess we will turn down the offer and go worth the original F9 for a multitude of reasons. And I think that’ll be the right move. That’s my prediction. Guess we shall see
I am not liking the idea of a B6 merger either, but that is mostly selfish in that they are east coast flying and I want more west coast stuff, which F9 has more of, or will. I say that though with a grain of salt in that I dont think mixing us with B6 is going to happen. I think B6 will simply refurbish the planes and we will mold to their business model. As for culture, again not something I think B6 is worried about, as in reality at least from the pilots side of things, it almost always comes down to the contract.
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Old 04-07-2022, 06:27 AM
  #150  
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Originally Posted by sioux8ships View Post
It was 4.5 hours of pay for a 22.5 hour overnight.. fwiw.
Correct. It was 4.5hours credit for >22.5hour layover.
And now almost all of our layovers after a red eye are greater than 22.5 but less than 24hours eliminating the extra duty period pay. It was one of the biggest concessions of contract 2018.
Crew planning now loves building a red eye then flip flop you to the 6am departure the following day after a 23:59 layover.

Our Red/Green system and Drop to Zero are QOL provisions that may not always be available to every pilot every month but if you give them up no pilot will ever have the ability to use them.

No concessions. Period.
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