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-   -   NK and F9 are unprofitable (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/spirit/144620-nk-f9-unprofitable.html)

spooldup 09-22-2023 12:38 PM

Amazing what happens when you treat people like crap and provide zero customer service or reliability.

ULCC model isn't failing, management is failing.

BusBoi 09-22-2023 02:45 PM


Originally Posted by spooldup (Post 3700329)
Amazing what happens when you treat people like crap and provide zero customer service or reliability.

ULCC model isn't failing, management is failing.

I think that's part of it. For the last year it's felt like our management is out to lunch and just trying to keep the wheels on long enough for the merger to be approved and JB management to takeover. Then Ted can go start his country music career in Nashville and Bendo can.......do whatever it is Bendo does.

Halon1211 09-22-2023 06:44 PM


Originally Posted by BusBoi (Post 3700396)
I think that's part of it. For the last year it's felt like our management is out to lunch and just trying to keep the wheels on long enough for the merger to be approved and JB management to takeover. Then Ted can go start his country music career in Nashville and Bendo can.......do whatever it is Bendo does.

collecting stamps.

Swindler128 09-27-2023 01:17 AM


Originally Posted by spooldup (Post 3700329)
Amazing what happens when you treat people like crap and provide zero customer service or reliability.

ULCC model isn't failing, management is failing.

what management. ever since I got to NK there was a feeling that it was just a fly by night OP that seemed to get a bit lucky.

Ted and those clowns are still gonna make MINT off of this merger or no merger either way. Unfortunately the little guy gets the shaft

LoopsMcDoops 09-27-2023 12:53 PM


Originally Posted by BusBoi (Post 3700396)
I think that's part of it. For the last year it's felt like our management is out to lunch and just trying to keep the wheels on long enough for the merger to be approved and JB management to takeover. Then Ted can go start his country music career in Nashville and Bendo can.......do whatever it is Bendo does.

For sure they are checked out but...

The big 4 have been working for years now in terms of buying up gates and securing massive aircraft orders to stop anyone else from growing. Just look at DFW. AA brought ERJ's out of the desert to stop us from getting more gates there. Those aircraft are not profitable, yet they operate them at a loss to stop us. Not a problem either, they can subsidize those losses elsewhere in their system or from the AAdvantage members. The big 4 have been allowed to grow so large that effectively they have the entire domestic market locked down. We can operate on like routes, but the ULCC model is perceptually inferior to that of the typical airline model. When comparing ticket prices, the slight "savings" we may offer is not great enough for most passengers to sacrifice some comfort or additional options the bigger airlines provide. The big 4 have found ways to make us as an option an afterthought when shopping for tickets. Yet our management has done nothing to counter this. Essentially the market power the big 4 now hold is insurmountable. It will take literally decades to organically grow any other airline to a size that can compete with economies of scale. Mergers are the only way now.

DrSmacFum 09-27-2023 01:12 PM


Originally Posted by LoopsMcDoops (Post 3702669)
For sure they are checked out but...

The big 4 have been working for years now in terms of buying up gates and securing massive aircraft orders to stop anyone else from growing. Just look at DFW. AA brought ERJ's out of the desert to stop us from getting more gates there. Those aircraft are not profitable, yet they operate them at a loss to stop us. Not a problem either, they can subsidize those losses elsewhere in their system or from the AAdvantage members. The big 4 have been allowed to grow so large that effectively they have the entire domestic market locked down. We can operate on like routes, but the ULCC model is perceptually inferior to that of the typical airline model. When comparing ticket prices, the slight "savings" we may offer is not great enough for most passengers to sacrifice some comfort or additional options the bigger airlines provide. The big 4 have found ways to make us as an option an afterthought when shopping for tickets. Yet our management has done nothing to counter this. Essentially the market power the big 4 now hold is insurmountable. It will take literally decades to organically grow any other airline to a size that can compete with economies of scale. Mergers are the only way now.

& to make matters worse, the DOJ is aiming to argue that merging 2 tiny airlines eliminates competition to the big 4, since a merging of 2 airlines means 1 less airline. So if no one else can merge, "for the sake of the consumer", the Big 4 will continue to drown out everyone else

Tranquility 09-27-2023 04:07 PM


Originally Posted by DrSmacFum (Post 3702685)
& to make matters worse, the DOJ is aiming to argue that merging 2 tiny airlines eliminates competition to the big 4, since a merging of 2 airlines means 1 less airline. So if no one else can merge, "for the sake of the consumer", the Big 4 will continue to drown out everyone else

As Mayor Pete said, we could end up with just Coke and Pepsi…. Never mind the fact that there are 4 that dominate the market, not 2, and the merger would create #5 which would still be half the size of #4…. Asked what they were doing to allow other airlines to compete on better footing for the consumer, he mentioned something about not allowing airlines to get too big by allowing mergers…. The horse is already out of the barn, Mr. Mayor! :rolleyes:

LoopsMcDoops 09-27-2023 05:22 PM


Originally Posted by DrSmacFum (Post 3702685)
& to make matters worse, the DOJ is aiming to argue that merging 2 tiny airlines eliminates competition to the big 4, since a merging of 2 airlines means 1 less airline. So if no one else can merge, "for the sake of the consumer", the Big 4 will continue to drown out everyone else

Absolutely. This issue has been created over decades of merger after merger. Now two small airlines are attempting to merge and it's the beginning of the end of the industry as we know it. They make these arguments, yet say nothing about the current beast they've created. Hopefully in a court of law, the truth is made evident to the judge and this lawsuit is laughed out. There really is no merit to the government's argument.

JulesWinfield 09-27-2023 06:32 PM


Originally Posted by LoopsMcDoops (Post 3702669)
For sure they are checked out but...

The big 4 have been working for years now in terms of buying up gates and securing massive aircraft orders to stop anyone else from growing. Just look at DFW. AA brought ERJ's out of the desert to stop us from getting more gates there.

I am fairly certain that those remote gates in the E terminal at DFW went up for bid and Spirit either wasn't interested or didn't bid enough to get them.

Tranquility 09-27-2023 06:48 PM


Originally Posted by JulesWinfield (Post 3702833)
I am fairly certain that those remote gates in the E terminal at DFW went up for bid and Spirit either wasn't interested or didn't bid enough to get them.

If it’s not Florida related, Spirit doesn’t want it. I despise what this airline has turned into, and you made the right choice at your longevity to move on.


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