And he failed his Spirit new hire check ride so he really is in dire need of daddy Spirt lol.

ahhh that’s fair game then haha, go ham

Who is chucking Ted now?

What is the info on the new exec? Anything good or bad?

Nada, zip, zilch. No comms with any group.

Did anyone expect anything different?

His only purpose is to stabilize the accounting for a sale, not get to know anyone or any group. He’s a place holder.

Haha. You sure about that?

This is the equivalent of not naming your baby cow on the farm, you know one day you’ll take it to slaughter. I hate to say it, but fear this is the case.

I’d agree with you if Dave’s history showed anything of the sort, but it’s suggests otherwise. Who am I to go against giants like Doug Parker and actual industry analysts all saying this is a set up for a merger.
I do understand where you’re coming from, I obviously pray that’s not the case. I do think it’s interesting BB said he will not be commenting on M&A. Normally when nothing is in the works, they just say so. Whether or not a deal is reached, you can rest assure they are at the very least talking behind closed doors.

Oh c'mon man seriously, what would Doug Parker know about airline mergers?

haha nice

filler

as much as anyone does not want it to happen, it has to happen. The industry materially changed over COVID and the USA does not have the appetite for two ULCC’s. I think a new airline of that scale can make some changes to customer service along with experience. My hope would be to offer actual lower fares while treating people well. I like to think about what Southwest was 15 years ago. That combined company could do just that.

long term viability for both pilot groups is much better together then separate.

About as much as he knows about getting DUIs…. 😬

Changes to customer service need to happen at both carriers regardless. As you say, “times have changed.”

Is the general idea then that he is temporary? Does he know what he's doing - any idea what his leadership style is or what can be expected here?

why don’t you do some research on him and look him up? See what he’s done in the past, who he’s done it for, and how those companies faired.

Never understood why people do this. What’s the point of a forum? He’s asking Spirit pilot’s opinions about this guy…where is he supposed to find that on the google machine?

I’m really not trying to be that guy, but what do we know about him? Other than the information that’s on the internet, nothing. I said that because that’s the only place we can find out right now. Spirit pilots don’t have an opinion cause we’ve only had him for two weeks more or less. So we don’t know his leadership style or what he’s like yet. The only thing I know is from searching the google. 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️ a google search can at least tell you where he’s been in the past, the positions he’s held, and maybe the role he did or didn’t play in those companies in being successful or not

I think it’s only fair to ask how many scoops and what flavor…. 😬

it’s not about doubling in size. The ULCCs are the only airlines trying to make money through moving economy passengers. That’s why Barry is always droning on about CASM this, CASM that, .08¢ CASM, blah blah blah. The legacies have figured out moving pax is a side show. It’s a losers game.

Delta makes its money through credit cards, cargo, MRO services, training services, oil wells, premium/business, upgrades, intl. travel, lounges, on top of all the other ancillary fees (bags, Wi-Fi, drinks, etc.).

They also have a large regional network of 50-70 seat rjs that allow them to maintain routes and markets year round, while the ULCCs have to move in and out of markets because they can’t fill a 321 neo during the offseason. They probably run those RJs at a loss, hence why they have a much larger CASM. Again, they don’t care about moving pax.

doublign in size by over paying for a bankrupt company, bloated with debt, while waving a bear paw, and telling pax how much you love them isn’t the panacea you think it is.

doubling the size = a larger network and way better CC revenue. Why do you think frontier is so heavily invested in building loyalty right now. They know there’s no money in the actual fair, thus why we are getting a new app, first class, and completely redone loyalty program. It’s all about building a product that stimulates Credit cards.

If you go back and listen to earnings calls/investor summits then you will hear him say having a larger airline needs to occur along with partners around the world to make people buy into your airline CC.

if frontier would have overpaid for spirit they would have moved forward during bankruptcy and bought spirit then. they were cost disciplined and rejected the counter proposal. Everyone can talk smack about indigo but they are not bad investors.

End of story, this business is all about scale.

oh god shut up this industry is all about scale even idiots know this. Merge the dang airlines and we’ll figure the rest out later.

Bigger is better. There’s no question about that. I don’t dispute that for a minute. For a variety of reasons it’s better. But, it needs to be done intelligently. Which is half the reason Barry and Frankie keep walking away from NK. I’m def not an F9 or indigo cheerleader, but I agree they’ve been prudent while NK has gotten a little too big for her britches.



You throwing more 240 seat planes on unprofitable routes after over paying for a company that comes with a ton of debt, and no new markets, is what I have a problem with.



Planes need to go places, on profitable routes, with sufficient frequency to attract the credit card customers you speak of. This is especially true for the ULCCs, which as I said before, still makes their money primarily from moving pax.



We also have the unfortunate luxury of trying to find undiscovered routes or trying to break into heavily fortified routes. We also have to figure out these routes based on a 190seat or 230/240 seat aircraft. We don’t get the luxury of adjusting aircraft when demand fluctuates. When was the last time F9 chased a competitor from a route? Or has it been the other way around? My memory tells me it’s been the latter.



Basic rules of economy and supply and demand doesn’t change just by multiplying by x2.

you shut up. TC ran your Mickey Mouse operation into the ground and now you’re desperate for F9 to white knight and save your seniority progression. And you’ll fear monger anyone in your way to get it.

quit and go to American. Figure the rest out later.

I bet you’re the angry little fat boy with the sparse mustache that nobody wants to fly with

Nope. But I’m def the guy stuffing dollar bills down your mom’s g string



When I see her at Play It Again Sam she always acts like she knows me. Even tho she gets my name wrong every time.



It’s cool though. I don’t like commitments.

haha nice! I have two dads though. It’s all good baby girl. You and I will both die in ULCC hell.

cheers

you and I can agree to that. Cheers as well.

Why we didn’t partner with Bilt I’ll never understand. Alaska/Hawaii did.

they process something like over 25% of renters payments in the US.

So Spirit and Contour?

https://x.com/ishriona/status/191941...QbiW_TOEUoTaSA

Spirit had 79 planes in 2015 and made $317M
Spirit had 88 planes in 2016 and made $264M
Spirit had 112 planes in 2017 and made $420M
Spirit had 128 planes in 2018 and made $155M
Spirit had 145 planes in 2019 and made $335M

Spirit had 213 planes in 2024 and lost $1.23B

If Spirit's problem is scale then why was it profitable when it was smaller and losing money now that is has scale?

American has scale and it lost money in Q1. Southwest has scale and lost $465M in 2024.

The problem is that Spirit isn't offering a product people want to pay enough for to cover its costs. It has nothing to do with scale nor credit cards. Spirit was profitable in the past without either of those.

You can’t say “the problem is that Spirit isn't offering a product people want to pay enough for” and simultaneously deny that ULCCs have a scale problem. People will pay more for a larger network: business travelers and others with the sort of discretionary income that can fund Spirit’s higher-than-2015 costs require frequency and the operational resilience that comes with a larger operation.

Furthermore, the attractiveness of the credit card (and thus its value to the company) is tied to the airline’s scale. What good are points if all I can use them for is a twice-weekly redeye to MCO? People want cards that enable them to actually go places. You need scale for that.

Fact is, the airline graveyard is full of small carriers who tried to offer a nice product without network/scale. You can offer me all the niceties in the world but if I can’t count on going where I want to go (direct) and when I want to go, I’ll choose the other guy.

Spot on……..

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, friendlypilot hates every airline aside from United.

BUT he does have a point. Scale without a plan just wastes money; however, if we accomplish scale by eliminating a competitor via a merger (I.e. F9 or any ULCC), then it has merit.

scale has merit because it gives you a firmer seat at the table.

But anyone who thinks just being bigger solves all the problems, or their existing problems magically go away, is foolish.

I definitely agree with that. If any merger happens, there has to be a plan. But I doubt either party would agree to it if it wasn’t beneficial.

“Da Plane, Da Plane!”
Aren’t “planes” for carpenters?

Spirit was profitable when they were smaller, because they focused their resources on passenger dense routes to vacation and leisure travel destinations. Aircraft utilization was significantly better prior to Ted's attempt to improve on-time performance by inflating block times and adding longer turn times. They strayed too far from their core operating principles.

Ted made it worse, but that all started under Fornaro. He was the one that lowered utilization to increase operational reliability. It made Spirit a better airline and a better place to work, but the profitability started to take a hit at that point and it's been downhill ever since. The Baldanza operating principles that made Spirit successful were also not sustainable in the long term.