I have accepted the recall as well. Hoping to get back on the line quickly and hold MCO.

Yes, but the company takes back whatever percentage of their contributions that aren't vested.

Ask me how I know.

I was only there 3 years and I believe they took back somewhere between $16-18K.

That’s why it’s a fake benefit and not a training bond,
as the person I quoted was suggesting. You aren’t losing anything you put in.

Pretty awesome that Year 1 doesn't even count towards the vesting schedule either. 🤦🏼‍♂️

So it's really 6 years to achieve 5 years of vesting.

They were suggesting it is *like* a training bond without the stigma of being one, not that actually it is a training bond.

the end result is pretty much the same: leave early = lose money.

Training costs are minuscule to these companies. At our shop we counted on turnover and training costs to drive change for years. These places will gladly eat those costs to lose high pay crews. It takes a tremendous turnover to get them to change course.

Also c-suite egos and reputations factor heavily. A company can get tanked just because some key people will refuse to alter course.

Could be worse

Don’t understand why you would go back to be honest ?

Probably to get current and to get out. There will be zero upward movement now at NK. Those who stayed are lifers. With no expansion the only path to upgrade is via retirement.

To get current

Spirit vs a 172 or no flying is an easy choice.

Actually, I am giving up a captain position at one of the largest 135 companies to come back. I need the 121 time and am late in a second career. Would love to see Spirit make it and stay, but also much greater chance of getting to a major if working the line and current.

I would think the PIC time would be more valuable if that’s your goal.

We’re going to have to hire again .. not just the recalls. With the attrition and lack of pilots coming back …

Not trying to sound snarky, but given the dire financial situation, do you think that they’d be able to fill a class? Would 1,500 hour CFI’s roll the dice on Spirit surviving, or would they rather to go to a regional thinking it’s a quicker and more stable path to building 121 and TPIC time?

LOL CFI's are at 2500 hours right now and would take anything over doing power on stalls in a clapped 172

well, that would depend on the options that they have… And their personal situation. I would gladly take an airbus over a 172.

also, I’m not arguing that they might not even be able to fill the classes lol I’m just saying from my perspective I wouldn’t be surprised to see an announcement of hiring again that’s all

would they be the most qualified or experienced? Debatable. But if/when they hire. Classes will be full.

They will have no problem filling classes. 1500 hour CFIs dont have a ton of options.

Cleary never been furloughed with minimal to no options.

He may already have plenty of 91/135 PIC.

Yea but they are probably willing to wait for a better one at a regional. I know 3 guys at that 1500hr mark. 2 have no interest in NK even if it opens back up. In their eyes flow times are about 7 years right now which, since they are young, is more than reasonable for them. The third is absolutely stoked on spirit. However, he has been rejected by all the regionals and 135 operators for 2 DUIs and a FAA 709 violation. Unfortunately that may be who they can find. Remember the younger generation is very entitled, they think it is going to be like it was for their buddies who got hired in 2022 by all the legacies with 1500TT. In short, they feel like Spirit is beneath them.

I’ve definitely noticed the entitlement of some of the younger generation as well. They think they should all be holding a line as an FO at one of the big four by age 30 because they have friends that were fortunate enough get hired in 2022-2023 by a legacy.

I know a guy that failed NK training and now works for the FAA

FAA is fine with that. Where they draw the line is too many at-fault accidents within recent years :rolleyes:

Honestly, this is a dumb question.

Respectfully of course. 😉

Email just came out that we will continue to shrink the fleet to a total of 76-80 aircraft by fall. You’d be dumb to take this recall, only to get furloughed again by fall

That doesn't make sense to me- show me the maths, if attrition continues to be 150/month going into Fall, how many pilots will Spirit have and how many do they require?

I'm perplexed why this conversation hasn't shifted towards Spirit's cash position paying $4 for jet fuel. They're flying what, 1000 hours/day at 500 gallons/hour. Ballpark that's $5 million/week extra cost. How does that work?

Or how Calmpilot (Captain?) posted NH and AC deliveries in 2027 in the good news thread? How does that work? Genuinely curious how this plays out if they’re gonna shrink

They need pilots for the summer. If they dont have pilots to handle the flight, and they start mass cancelations, well....not good.

So you bring on as many recalls you can, they are typed, you push them thru the faster requal class and get them back on the line for Summer flying. As they shrink, you hope attrition continues to take higher pay CAs and you can keep lower end pay scale pilots to reduce costs, while the fleet shrinks to 1200 pilots by fall and the announced fleet count.

What they couldn't do is keep having pilots leave faster than the planes are going back, causing the imbalance and resulting in cancelations.

So...here's the gameplan folks. Shrink to 76 A/C, close 3-4 pointless bases, reduce crew staffing ratios to 12-14 pilots/aircraft, fill all upper management vacancies internally (cheaper than hiring industry experience), fly V-patterns between LGA/EWR and DTW/ORD to Florida/MYR/MSY with a bit of Texas and LAS mixed in (but not on Tuesdays and Saturdays, that'd be crazy!), and aim for about 8.5 hours of A/C utilization/day. How does this sound for a path to profitability?!

Growth in 2027? 😂 What's this super secret plan to profitability and growth that they've been hiding from everybody for the last several years? They recalled because they need meat in the seats NOW to replace the grossly underestimated mass exodus of pilots who keep dropping next month's flying into open time with their 2-week notice every...single...day. MGMT is putting bubblegum patches in the leaks in the levee to hopefully find a dance partner (F9), meanwhile praying Brent crude doesn't go to $150/barrel. 🤞What did miss?

bout covers it

If it work, it works. Most of us still here are driving to work, making great money and enjoying the QOL others are envious of.

For me, I don’t care what the business model looks like as long as the checks clear and I get to see my family almost every day.

Life’s too short to start over.

Are the envious people in the room with us right now?

Yes, deeply envious of our 72 Hour, 18 Days a month of RSV with no drops, pick ups, trades, premium, or sick if needed. All of that on top of our industry low wages and 8% DC. We have it so great I’ve actually been getting asked for lots of letters of Rec from United and American pilots who want to cash in on the massive QOL we offer and drive to work to our ORD DFW and IAH bases that are all about to close!

Basically a 1000 pilot airline with 76 airframes. Most pilots will be on the high end of the pay scale in each seat. Further concessions will have to come. Base closures and much more efficient and high flying schedules also. CC says something that makes sense. It’s all about perception. What is important to one pilot might not make sense to another. Priorities in every persons life is different too. Drive to work, collect a paycheck that keeps the lights on, and don’t compare your job with one at another airline. Very simple, if you’re game.

I would argue Life is Too short to "Not start over"

I would not blame anyone somewhat senior at Spirit who stayed but the entire notion of Starting over being the worst thing in the world isn't exactly true. Yes the absolutely MASSIVE Paycut sucks There is absolutely no way around it, and yes it also is a massive Kick in the Stomach being Junior to people 1/2 your age and 1/2 your experience (that's not a tangible thing, it's just ego driven) but after that (as a non commuter) the only regret you'll have is not leaving sooner. I know nobody has a crystal ball and nobody knows when the music will stop but if you could financially afford to start over, might be worth it to at the very least seriously consider it. Spirit was great, but it falls short in so many areas that you really never could understand until you go work for Delta, AA, or United.

Anyway, I am not saying to leave NK, everyone is different but The amount of sleep I lost and the stress I felt from January 16, to when I started over was a waste of time because it wasn't anywhere near as painful as I thought, (Financially, year one was fugging brutal and I get not being able to afford it), but schedule wise, learning a new airplane etc it gets very good, very quickly. (for now) Anyway, just something to think about.

Not directed at you per se, just kind of talking out loud.

Yup, in my second month at an airline based in Texas after 9 years at NK. Only ragret was I didn’t do this sooner.

That's your only regret? "Not even a single letter?"