Spirit of NKS
#7421
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2014
Position: A320 Left
Posts: 715
Just curious, what would be the union's reason for jamming up the red/green grid?
#7423
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Posts: 758
Red/green and the 29 hour cap lay solely at the feet of management. Your frustration is misdirected if you blame the union for those issues. Unless of course you attribute the red/green fiasco to the removal of certain management pilots from our seniority list. That had to happen by the way.
As for the management pilots, you seem to have inside info so tell us why they had to be removed from the seniority list. I agree that they should have been placed in the proper seniority, but am not sure just why they had to be removed.
Back in the day, ALPA encouraged members to move both up and down. Something about who they are ultimately loyal to I believe.
Finally, regarding management pilot flying. Way back in 2006, your MEC signed two LOA's that should have set a precedent for allowing management to fly. I wonder why that precedent hasn't been followed these last four years?
For those wondering, the language in our then current contract was very grey regarding management flying. In one section it provided for management to fly a certain percentage of flying, or at least it provided for management withholding a certain amount of fly - ostensibly for management pilots to fly. In another it said that anyone flying a Spirit airplane had to be on the seniority list and in another place it said (like most other contracts) that a pilot could not fly out of seniority. In 2006 the MEC set a precedent that Spirit would give us something for every management pilot that was allowed to fly. That is, by name every non-seniority list pilot had his own LOA. And all of those LOA's gave the pilot group something with no give on our part. Essentially, the management pilots were allowed to fly but they were restricted from acting as reserves or from flying any OT. ALL flying they accomplished must be taken from assigned flying. *** If the assigned pilot was Captain, he/she had to remain on the trip but was guaranteed a Big Front Seat (first class size). FO's were released from the entire trip, 24 hours prior to show time, and owed the company nothing. No time available, nothing. It's been eight years, but I seem to remember that the three hour reserve time was the flip side of allowing the DO to fly.
This was the case under Contract 2003 with LOA's. I don't understand how we came to allow multiple management pilots to fly out of seniority and without a seniority number. What happened?
***that was a huge win. Setting the precedent that the management pilots could not act as reserves/count toward proper staffing was huge.
#7424
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Posts: 758
Spirit ALPA is of course not jamming up the red/green grid. But as I asked a couple of posts ago, what changed 18 months ago. Why did Spirit scheduling change the red/green system? I assume the language didn't change, what changed?
#7425
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Posts: 758
First year pay should go up. How much? I don't know. It won't be the top 5 or so things on the list to negotiate I hope. People don't leave here because of the first year pay. I'd argue FO pay in years 2,3 and 4 being raised to match Delta would do more to attract and keep people here than adjusting first year pay. But yes, $38.50/hr is a joke.
Why do we care about attracting and keeping people here?
Pilots don't unionize to "attract people here", pilots unionize to enhance/protect our careers.
Let the company worry about employee retention, we need to worry about having the best pay and working conditions we can have for ALL Spirit pilots.
#7426
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2014
Position: A320 Left
Posts: 715
I'm not a union rep. Let's get that out of the way. My understanding is that management won't agree to negotiate on any front: LOA or otherwise. The most illustrative example of their bargaining style is in the run up to the 2010 strike: who they sent to bargain, etc. I am as dumbfounded by how we got here as most line pilots, I just don't ascribe to the 'blame ALPA' mantra. Is ALPA blameless, probably not. But my own opinion is the majority of the blame rests with Miramar.
#7427
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2014
Position: A320 Left
Posts: 715
Really? You're talking about the first year living standard for professional pilots who average over ten years experience. Just because they don't leave because of first year pay doesn't mean that first year pay is acceptable.
Why do we care about attracting and keeping people here?
Pilots don't unionize to "attract people here", pilots unionize to enhance/protect our careers.
Let the company worry about employee retention, we need to worry about having the best pay and working conditions we can have for ALL Spirit pilots.
Why do we care about attracting and keeping people here?
Pilots don't unionize to "attract people here", pilots unionize to enhance/protect our careers.
Let the company worry about employee retention, we need to worry about having the best pay and working conditions we can have for ALL Spirit pilots.
#7428
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2014
Position: A320 Left
Posts: 715
As an add on, I'm sure Miramar would fix the red/green grid in exchange for giving up the four days off or accepting PBS. Is that the type of negotiating you want our union to entertain? Sometimes they need to keep Pandora's Box closed.
#7429
If I hear "give up" something from anybody one more time I am going to scream. We are THE MOST PROFITABLE AIRLINE IN THE US. Why the heck do we have to "give something". We should not!!!!!!!!
Jesus people. I understand that nobody want the company to pay us so much that we go bankrupt, but there should be no talk of giving up ANYTHING. We stand to gain!!!!!
Grow a pair and realize that we are worth more, and will soon be very hard to replace!
Jesus people. I understand that nobody want the company to pay us so much that we go bankrupt, but there should be no talk of giving up ANYTHING. We stand to gain!!!!!
Grow a pair and realize that we are worth more, and will soon be very hard to replace!
#7430
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2011
Posts: 279
If I hear "give up" something from anybody one more time I am going to scream. We are THE MOST PROFITABLE AIRLINE IN THE US. Why the heck do we have to "give something". We should not!!!!!!!!
Jesus people. I understand that nobody want the company to pay us so much that we go bankrupt, but there should be no talk of giving up ANYTHING. We stand to gain!!!!!
Grow a pair and realize that we are worth more, and will soon be very hard to replace!
Jesus people. I understand that nobody want the company to pay us so much that we go bankrupt, but there should be no talk of giving up ANYTHING. We stand to gain!!!!!
Grow a pair and realize that we are worth more, and will soon be very hard to replace!
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