Spirit of NKS, Part II
10-13-2015, 10:28 AM
#101
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: Airplane
Posts: 2,385
Originally Posted by Plane Ramrod
I'd be worried about your experience level. Heck, Meatballs had like 9,500 total posts when he got hired. Going in with less than 10 is suicide 
10-13-2015, 12:02 PM
#102
Banned
Joined APC: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,857
Originally Posted by Letec
I have heard from a lot of pilots that the contract at Spirit is what sets it apart. I was just wondering if there is a place that I can read the details of this contract or get more information on it? I am probably going to interview in November and am trying to get as much information as possible before that date.
10-13-2015, 12:22 PM
#103
Banned
Joined APC: Aug 2012
Position: B-767 FO
Posts: 554
Originally Posted by Letec
I don't have an internal rec. I haven't scheduled it yet in November. I am mainly looking at bullet points of the contract. I know there is conflict pay and 4 days off between block which is great but I am also wondering about reserve schedule and some other things. How many guaranteed days off on reserve? How long is call out? How many hours are in a typical hard line? Also what do medical benefits cost per month for a family plan? Are you guys PPO or high deductible plan with HSA?
Relief Line - No Fewer than 15 Days Off
Reserve Line - 12 to 15 Days Off
Reserve is a 3 hour call out. I may have been lucky, but was never short called during 5 months of Reserve. Results may vary.
Automatic Release 6 hours early on your Final Reserve Day.
5 Choices in Medical Plans:
Ranging from an HRA (Health Reimbursement Account) for $126.48 semi-monthly for Family to Choice Plus POS Plan B which is $288.85 semi-monthly for Family
Dental Covered Free w/ Health Insurance.
Vision $8.73 Semi-monthly for a Family
10-13-2015, 01:14 PM
#104
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: 320*****
Posts: 487
Originally Posted by Letec
I don't have an internal rec. I haven't scheduled it yet in November. I am mainly looking at bullet points of the contract. I know there is conflict pay and 4 days off between block which is great but I am also wondering about reserve schedule and some other things. How many guaranteed days off on reserve? How long is call out? How many hours are in a typical hard line? Also what do medical benefits cost per month for a family plan? Are you guys PPO or high deductible plan with HSA?
- 4 days off
- Transition bidding (it can add 4-6 days off with pay every other month if you are senior enough and if you focus solely on bidding this... most people can't)
- Schedule integrity. It is rare to get reassigned unless you get canceled.
- Line bidding helps a lot when you are trying to figure out how to max your vacation. It is easy fairly easy to make 2-3 weeks of vacation out of a single week. But if you do not have the vacation credit (i.e. you are new) than of course you lose the pay.
- Pretty easy to drop schedule (most bases) due to a red/green system, except during major holidays and the first 3 days of the month. You also get one guaranteed drop every 12 months with some limitations.
- Practically you can't get pulled in to work on your days off (no junior manning unless you want it).
- Also no airport reserve.
- Most old rest rules are hard written into the contract so i.e. 30/7 (we have 29/7) applies during line building. This also causes problems.
- Reserve lines are built 12/13 days off but many reserve lines have actually 15 off. I.e. R13 reserve starts 1 PM and lasts until 3 AM the next day. They build three sequences of R13 and you end up with 3 more days off. Same for R19. Lots of peeps bid this. I love bidding this. Well... not that I have much of a choice being junior in base.
- Relief lines (mix of reserve and regular flying) have all 15 days off.
I am not sure if this has much to do with the contract or not. But you do get to enjoy a fairly decent life on reserve. Off season 5-6 days flying. Many guys fly only 200-250 hours a year on reserve. During high season you get to work almost all of your reserve days. 80% or so. This year I did just this. Almost no flying in off season and I did quite some overtime during the summer. It worked out great if you average that out for the year.
In general, I think, you will hear QOL is good from guys like me. CA, lives in base, bids reserve or relief. Even though pay is lower than industry, it is plenty to enjoy a good life with minimum work and the occasional summer whoring. I also have 3 weeks of vacation a year (it goes up to 5 after many many years) so that helps a ton. Practically it means 3 months off with pay to start with.
Now if you want me to talk about the bad stuff...
- All lines are made equal. They all equally blow. Seniority almost does not matter if you fall into the range of say 20% to 60% in base except for transition. Transition helps many to get extra days off and that way things are bearable.
- Trips are horrible due to trip averaging and due to the fact that we have no frequency so they can't really build productive pairings. A three day trip can pay as low as 13.5h credit and if it has a red-eye it can take up 4 days of your life. Typical pairing pays minimum pay (4.5h per day). Lots of hotel time. Even more time riding the limo to/from the hotel. It drives us nuts.
... and the pay, the retirement, etc.. those are really not to 2015 standards.
But this is not the bad part. The worst part is the overall state of this airline. We go from one meltdown to the next. One year we open a base in LAS without MX so we get an MX meltdown. The next year we fly every airplane with 30 DMIs and 20 open seats because seats were not maintained for years. The year after we no longer can fuel with pax on board. Meltdown. This year someone decided that it was OK to grow the airline 20-25% year after year but it was not OK to grow the infrastructure. We hired no schedulers so we melted down to the point that the FAA thought we no longer had operational control and we sure did not.
This year was "The year of the customer." So this year we outsourced most stations and chaos is everywhere. ATL, ORD, IAH... disaster. Passengers are furious everywhere. If you want to work here, go and sit around at a Spirit gate at any major hub for 2-3 hours and watch. That will be your everyday here. Delay, delay, and more delay. Dealing with that is QOL as well. On the job QOL. Real bad.
10-13-2015, 02:07 PM
#105
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2015
Position: Low paid Airbus gear slinger
Posts: 815
^^
Yup. Pretty much sums it up. I'll say I dont live in base, I dont pick up open time, the qol is okay, I cant get called in on a junior man, so I know exactly when I go to work. Line bidding is a pretty big deal, I can pretty much set my schedule, decide when and where I fly, but the pay is still pretty low. Make sure you understand this, the pay, retirement and benefits are LOW. Low. Let me say it one more time, pay is low. And we aint getting a new contract any time soon, so be ready for the low pay. And we are just days away from another meltdown, Im sure of it.
Yup. Pretty much sums it up. I'll say I dont live in base, I dont pick up open time, the qol is okay, I cant get called in on a junior man, so I know exactly when I go to work. Line bidding is a pretty big deal, I can pretty much set my schedule, decide when and where I fly, but the pay is still pretty low. Make sure you understand this, the pay, retirement and benefits are LOW. Low. Let me say it one more time, pay is low. And we aint getting a new contract any time soon, so be ready for the low pay. And we are just days away from another meltdown, Im sure of it.
10-13-2015, 03:03 PM
#106
Banned
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: A-320
Posts: 6,929
Originally Posted by Plane Ramrod
I'd be worried about your experience level. Heck, Meatballs had like 9,500 total posts when he got hired. Going in with less than 10 is suicide
So, yes my post count is pathetic but not asssss pathetic as 10,000+
10-13-2015, 04:23 PM
#107
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2014
Posts: 479
Originally Posted by FlyingOkra
Hard Line - Typically, 15 or < Days Off and between 72-85 hours.
Relief Line - No Fewer than 15 Days Off
Reserve Line - 12 to 15 Days Off
Reserve is a 3 hour call out. I may have been lucky, but was never short called during 5 months of Reserve. Results may vary.
Automatic Release 6 hours early on your Final Reserve Day.
5 Choices in Medical Plans:
Ranging from an HRA (Health Reimbursement Account) for $126.48 semi-monthly for Family to Choice Plus POS Plan B which is $288.85 semi-monthly for Family
Dental Covered Free w/ Health Insurance.
Vision $8.73 Semi-monthly for a Family
Relief Line - No Fewer than 15 Days Off
Reserve Line - 12 to 15 Days Off
Reserve is a 3 hour call out. I may have been lucky, but was never short called during 5 months of Reserve. Results may vary.
Automatic Release 6 hours early on your Final Reserve Day.
5 Choices in Medical Plans:
Ranging from an HRA (Health Reimbursement Account) for $126.48 semi-monthly for Family to Choice Plus POS Plan B which is $288.85 semi-monthly for Family
Dental Covered Free w/ Health Insurance.
Vision $8.73 Semi-monthly for a Family
10-13-2015, 04:26 PM
#108
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2014
Posts: 479
Originally Posted by Rainbows
^^
Yup. Pretty much sums it up. I'll say I dont live in base, I dont pick up open time, the qol is okay, I cant get called in on a junior man, so I know exactly when I go to work. Line bidding is a pretty big deal, I can pretty much set my schedule, decide when and where I fly, but the pay is still pretty low. Make sure you understand this, the pay, retirement and benefits are LOW. Low. Let me say it one more time, pay is low. And we aint getting a new contract any time soon, so be ready for the low pay. And we are just days away from another meltdown, Im sure of it.
Yup. Pretty much sums it up. I'll say I dont live in base, I dont pick up open time, the qol is okay, I cant get called in on a junior man, so I know exactly when I go to work. Line bidding is a pretty big deal, I can pretty much set my schedule, decide when and where I fly, but the pay is still pretty low. Make sure you understand this, the pay, retirement and benefits are LOW. Low. Let me say it one more time, pay is low. And we aint getting a new contract any time soon, so be ready for the low pay. And we are just days away from another meltdown, Im sure of it.
Wasn't there someone who said prefbid was better than line bidding?
10-13-2015, 05:08 PM
#109
On Reserve
Joined APC: Oct 2015
Posts: 10
Originally Posted by Normann
Actually not all that many. Once in a while I get this question and I can't come up with all that much.
- 4 days off
- Transition bidding (it can add 4-6 days off with pay every other month if you are senior enough and if you focus solely on bidding this... most people can't)
- Schedule integrity. It is rare to get reassigned unless you get canceled.
- Line bidding helps a lot when you are trying to figure out how to max your vacation. It is easy fairly easy to make 2-3 weeks of vacation out of a single week. But if you do not have the vacation credit (i.e. you are new) than of course you lose the pay.
- Pretty easy to drop schedule (most bases) due to a red/green system, except during major holidays and the first 3 days of the month. You also get one guaranteed drop every 12 months with some limitations.
- Practically you can't get pulled in to work on your days off (no junior manning unless you want it).
- Also no airport reserve.
- Most old rest rules are hard written into the contract so i.e. 30/7 (we have 29/7) applies during line building. This also causes problems.
- Reserve lines are built 12/13 days off but many reserve lines have actually 15 off. I.e. R13 reserve starts 1 PM and lasts until 3 AM the next day. They build three sequences of R13 and you end up with 3 more days off. Same for R19. Lots of peeps bid this. I love bidding this. Well... not that I have much of a choice being junior in base.
- Relief lines (mix of reserve and regular flying) have all 15 days off.
I am not sure if this has much to do with the contract or not. But you do get to enjoy a fairly decent life on reserve. Off season 5-6 days flying. Many guys fly only 200-250 hours a year on reserve. During high season you get to work almost all of your reserve days. 80% or so. This year I did just this. Almost no flying in off season and I did quite some overtime during the summer. It worked out great if you average that out for the year.
In general, I think, you will hear QOL is good from guys like me. CA, lives in base, bids reserve or relief. Even though pay is lower than industry, it is plenty to enjoy a good life with minimum work and the occasional summer whoring. I also have 3 weeks of vacation a year (it goes up to 5 after many many years) so that helps a ton. Practically it means 3 months off with pay to start with.
Now if you want me to talk about the bad stuff...
- All lines are made equal. They all equally blow. Seniority almost does not matter if you fall into the range of say 20% to 60% in base except for transition. Transition helps many to get extra days off and that way things are bearable.
- Trips are horrible due to trip averaging and due to the fact that we have no frequency so they can't really build productive pairings. A three day trip can pay as low as 13.5h credit and if it has a red-eye it can take up 4 days of your life. Typical pairing pays minimum pay (4.5h per day). Lots of hotel time. Even more time riding the limo to/from the hotel. It drives us nuts.
... and the pay, the retirement, etc.. those are really not to 2015 standards.
But this is not the bad part. The worst part is the overall state of this airline. We go from one meltdown to the next. One year we open a base in LAS without MX so we get an MX meltdown. The next year we fly every airplane with 30 DMIs and 20 open seats because seats were not maintained for years. The year after we no longer can fuel with pax on board. Meltdown. This year someone decided that it was OK to grow the airline 20-25% year after year but it was not OK to grow the infrastructure. We hired no schedulers so we melted down to the point that the FAA thought we no longer had operational control and we sure did not.
This year was "The year of the customer." So this year we outsourced most stations and chaos is everywhere. ATL, ORD, IAH... disaster. Passengers are furious everywhere. If you want to work here, go and sit around at a Spirit gate at any major hub for 2-3 hours and watch. That will be your everyday here. Delay, delay, and more delay. Dealing with that is QOL as well. On the job QOL. Real bad.
- 4 days off
- Transition bidding (it can add 4-6 days off with pay every other month if you are senior enough and if you focus solely on bidding this... most people can't)
- Schedule integrity. It is rare to get reassigned unless you get canceled.
- Line bidding helps a lot when you are trying to figure out how to max your vacation. It is easy fairly easy to make 2-3 weeks of vacation out of a single week. But if you do not have the vacation credit (i.e. you are new) than of course you lose the pay.
- Pretty easy to drop schedule (most bases) due to a red/green system, except during major holidays and the first 3 days of the month. You also get one guaranteed drop every 12 months with some limitations.
- Practically you can't get pulled in to work on your days off (no junior manning unless you want it).
- Also no airport reserve.
- Most old rest rules are hard written into the contract so i.e. 30/7 (we have 29/7) applies during line building. This also causes problems.
- Reserve lines are built 12/13 days off but many reserve lines have actually 15 off. I.e. R13 reserve starts 1 PM and lasts until 3 AM the next day. They build three sequences of R13 and you end up with 3 more days off. Same for R19. Lots of peeps bid this. I love bidding this. Well... not that I have much of a choice being junior in base.
- Relief lines (mix of reserve and regular flying) have all 15 days off.
I am not sure if this has much to do with the contract or not. But you do get to enjoy a fairly decent life on reserve. Off season 5-6 days flying. Many guys fly only 200-250 hours a year on reserve. During high season you get to work almost all of your reserve days. 80% or so. This year I did just this. Almost no flying in off season and I did quite some overtime during the summer. It worked out great if you average that out for the year.
In general, I think, you will hear QOL is good from guys like me. CA, lives in base, bids reserve or relief. Even though pay is lower than industry, it is plenty to enjoy a good life with minimum work and the occasional summer whoring. I also have 3 weeks of vacation a year (it goes up to 5 after many many years) so that helps a ton. Practically it means 3 months off with pay to start with.
Now if you want me to talk about the bad stuff...
- All lines are made equal. They all equally blow. Seniority almost does not matter if you fall into the range of say 20% to 60% in base except for transition. Transition helps many to get extra days off and that way things are bearable.
- Trips are horrible due to trip averaging and due to the fact that we have no frequency so they can't really build productive pairings. A three day trip can pay as low as 13.5h credit and if it has a red-eye it can take up 4 days of your life. Typical pairing pays minimum pay (4.5h per day). Lots of hotel time. Even more time riding the limo to/from the hotel. It drives us nuts.
... and the pay, the retirement, etc.. those are really not to 2015 standards.
But this is not the bad part. The worst part is the overall state of this airline. We go from one meltdown to the next. One year we open a base in LAS without MX so we get an MX meltdown. The next year we fly every airplane with 30 DMIs and 20 open seats because seats were not maintained for years. The year after we no longer can fuel with pax on board. Meltdown. This year someone decided that it was OK to grow the airline 20-25% year after year but it was not OK to grow the infrastructure. We hired no schedulers so we melted down to the point that the FAA thought we no longer had operational control and we sure did not.
This year was "The year of the customer." So this year we outsourced most stations and chaos is everywhere. ATL, ORD, IAH... disaster. Passengers are furious everywhere. If you want to work here, go and sit around at a Spirit gate at any major hub for 2-3 hours and watch. That will be your everyday here. Delay, delay, and more delay. Dealing with that is QOL as well. On the job QOL. Real bad.
Thanks a lot for all the info. This explains it extremely well.
10-13-2015, 06:05 PM
#110
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Position: A320 starboard... Arrrr
Posts: 520
Originally Posted by JoeyMeatballs
Are you fu--ing with us?
In many other high paying professions, the interviewee is also interviewing the company to see if they are offering a good enough deal.
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