UnprotectdPilot

I'm with Envoy, live in-base (ORD), and have 6-7 years until I flow to AA unless we have some crazy level of captain attrition in the next few years.

I'm considering Sun Country.

Pros
+ New contract coming next year (at least I believe so)
+ Switch to the ULCC/LCC model (possible growth [still speculative])
+ 737 type rating with time in type
+ Upgrade isn't super long

Cons
- Commuting ORD to MSP
- Pay difference isn't all that significant
- Giving up a flow-thru may be a bigger gamble than it's worth

I guess I'm considering the company from a 'buy low' mentality. Hiring at the Big 6 is about to skyrocket forcing movement everywhere. If SY wants to compete, they're going to have to step up.

Am I wrong in my thinking or is this company going nowhere?

apex7

I wouldn’t do it. Upgrade is at least 3 years right now, and from what everyone has been saying they won’t renew the contract anytime soon.

The ORD-MSP commute is horrible. I did it myself. It’s one thing doing it for a regional where you can hold a line easily and commute to “commutable” lines, but unless things change here soon you will be on reserve for a good solid year. That’s 10 days off a month. They will be calling you on your final reserve day pretty much all the time sending you out for some turn that gets back in base at midnight, so there’s another day lost sitting in a crash pad instead of being home.

First year pay is a big hit. $48/ hour sounds ok but when you never have an opportunity to work overtime or pick up anything, you are looking at paychecks in the $1300 range after deductions, and then you gonna be paying for a crashed on top of that? It blows my mind that people commute for this place.

Now if you can move to MSP, thats a whole different story. Besides the crappy first year pay , it’s not a terrible place to be while you wait out on your call from a major. But I don’t know if your hoping for american eventually leaving envoy to come here might not sit too Well for them? Just my 2c.

Starchkr

Have you commuted before? Commuting to SY is brutal even as a line holder until you can get lots of seniority but even then the lines here are not designed for commuters.

One would think they’d have a lot of pressure to come up with a decent contract relatively quickly to attract talent and grow but recent events suggest otherwise. I for one expect a difficult road ahead with negotiations. I hope I’m wrong.

Coming here is a significant gamble. Not that anything in aviation is a sure bet, but this is a lot of risk without much reward unless you want to live in the twin cities.



Remember, as of right now SY does not provide hotels or per diem during training.

doubletap

Gawd that sounds ****ty.

How many trips are starting and/or ending out of base - Ive heard there are quite a few starting & ending out of PDX already...any sense on the truth there?

rickair7777

Legacies are not going to value ULCC major airline experience over regional experience. An extra type will help of course but can you get that envoy? If it were me I'd probably wait for flow and apply to other big-six airlines in the meantime.

Right now waiting for big six is probably a safer path to happiness than rolling the dice on a small ULCC. Although if they have a big base where you want to live, it's probably safe to assume that their pay will HAVE to come up to ballpark parity with other second-tier/LCC's.

Packrat

I'm with rickair. Why jump to another airline, start at the bottom when your regional experience is going to be just as attractive to a major airline? The flow is just icing on the cake. You may be gone to a major before your flow date anyway.

maverickchill

both Spirit and Frontier have ORD base and higher pay...commuting for SC sounds awful, i think i would keep building PIC and enjoy life until American calls.

nibake

The company is trying really hard to go somewhere, but it is still a small airline and as such a pretty big gamble unless you have a good reason. Why not try for a different ULCC as others have mentioned? If you can get on at Frontier or Spirit you won't have to worry about the pay being an "if." The low upgrade time is good, but that alone shouldn't be enough reason to make the switch.

MedSledDriver

Really? Like not even a little?

I’m a little surprised to hear that 737 ULCC time isn’t weighed any more favorably than regional 121 time. I can see the appeal of staying, upgrading, then getting involved with the training department all at a regional, but that 737 tho.. would it not be a better deal to do all of that at sunny?

I’ve read that a 737 type looks real good to Southwest, but that’s about it.

Packrat

All the majors want is Part 121 Turbine PIC time. Doesn't matter if its in a 737 or an E175. The type rating is irrelevant because the major airline is going to put you through the entire training program for whatever jet you are going to fly.

The only advantage to having the type rating would be having a Company checkride vs. a type rating ride. And you wouldn't even get that until you upgraded at the major airline.

That's exactly what happened in my case. I had a DC-9 type rating from the Navy. When I had my initial Captain upgrade on the MD-80 I only had to have an initial Company check since the DC-9 type rating was already on my license.

The original poster is much better off building his Captain TPIC at the regional than jumping over to Sun Country.