Sven Goericke

At first shortly to my Person. My Name is Sven, living in Leipzig, Germany and i'm 28 Years old. Unfortunely (Eyeproblems) i'm not an Airliner Pilot. I'm Softwaredeveloper. So now, what i'm searching here?

I'm an Flightsim-Enthusiast since 2001, begin with Microsoft FS2000 (then 2002, 2004 and now FSX). There are many Airliner Addons for this but no goos B777. So, currently i'm working on one, specially the 777-200ER. So, i have a lot of Documents (AOM and Maintanance/Training Manuals) but i miss some Things that i need to know for a correct Simulation. As an Example, i've read in the FlyByWire/FlightControls Section about the "Trim Reference Speed". Not sure i have understand correctly what it means in the real Aircraft and, as the most important, how i can calculate them (FSX itselvs doesn't know about them, he has only a conventional Trim System and the Airbus-FBW). But, my (and my Team too) Goal is to make the 772 for FSX as real as possible.

It would be great if there are any B777-Pilots which could help us with any assistance (of course, testing the Results in FSX too :-)).

Kind Regards
Sven

dvd1

Seems like the new FSX is more of a game than a simulator, instead on focusing on reproducing airliners or complex airplanes they just focused on eye-candy and missions (game oriented) stuff.
Anyways, I'm always looking for quality add-ons, and actually for the plane I fly, the CRJ-200, I was looking for a good add-on before beginning training so I could be sharp. I found Wilco/Feel There Simulations CRJ200. It looked great but honestly didn't fly much like the real thing. Luckly I learned how to modify airplane's flight dynamics and after spending several days I finally got it flying close to what the real thing does.

In your case you are looking for a 777. As far as I know there are no good 777 add-ons. Sorry.........
If you want to fly heavy iron and like precision in flight dynamics and complex systems, the best add-on ever is the LEVEL-D Sim 767-300. It is only available for FS9 right now, but is really worth downgrading to FS9. I never flown a 767 but got a friend who does and he really liked it. The feeling of a real airplane is amazing. Remember flying big iron these days is about knowing FMS and glass cockpits. Also PMDG developed a 747-400. It's worth the money. Performance is amazing if you have access to manuals. They also developed 737NGs. They're very realistic.
Seems like for people who like to simulate the real thing FSX is not giving good results, finding add-ons is hard and you have to have an extremely powerful computer.

Flying the default 777 on FS is frustraiting and doesn't simulate the systems which are REALLY REALLY important. Don't waste your time.

Good look !

the King

It sounds like Sven is trying to build the B777 that dvd wants...

HSLD

Hi Sven,

Let me see what I can come up with for you, off the top of my head, this is what I remember:

For the line pilot, TRS is not something that we calculate or even are aware of most of the time (unless we're studying for a check ride). TRS is an input to a black box to help provide artificial feedback in the yoke.

Because the 777 is fly-by-wire, there is no direct mechanical feedback from the stabilizer. Instead of trimming "weight off" of the yoke, you trim to a speed. The trim switches set a reference speed that is summed with the actual speed in the feedback loop in such a way that the pilot feels conventional control force cues as speed changes.

As far as calculating TRS, I'd guess that it's a proprietary Boeing algorithm that's way beyond what a line 777 pilot would know.

Sven Goericke

@dvd1

i know about the LevelD 763, fly them very often. Also i know about the PMDG-Addons but i didn't have the time to study all the Manuals for the 737/744 as i'm working on the 777 :-)

Right :-). In FSX, unless other FS-Versions, it seems to be much easier to simulate an FBW-System (didn't mean that from Airbus ;-)). Now we can (and i do them so) grab all Inputs from Joystick or whatever before they reach FSX and set the FlightControls directly. This also includes the Stabilizer-Trim.

@HSLD
Sounds like a Problem for me. So, if it's impossible for me to calculate TRS i can nothing do as provide conventional Trim. On the other Side, as i have implemented some of the Flight-Envelope-Protections, in "my" 777 for FSX you can't trim into Overspeed or Stallspeed. If i want to stall, i have to pull the Joystick back continuous (to fly in Overspeed i've to push). This is like them what i understand reading the Manuals.

dvd1

Sorry I didn't know you were determined to "build" a realistic 777. In that case I wish you good luck. You are going to need much more that manuals to reproduce it. You propably going to need a whole team, including a 777 pilot to test it. One of the biggest problem about FS is that the atmosphere is not reproduced precisesly. I found that while playing with Coefficient of parasite drag, induced drag, controls surface aerea and control imput forces (reproducing a real fly-by wire is going to be a nightmare)

Anyways wish you good luck and would love to hear more about this project!

Sven Goericke

This means "realistic as possible" within the Limitations of FlightSimulator. And of Course, i can't get enough Informations about the 777, but on the other Side that what i have in the Moment helps a lot. And also you are right that i need a real 777-Pilot for testing etc. Thats why i posted in this Forum. Unfortunaly there is no German Airline that have 777 in Service so it's much more difficult to find a real 777 Pilot. And also it's unfortunaly its not possible to ask Boeing for any Information (which of course is logical).

Yes, thats true. I didn't say that it would be easy. The one i said is that it will be easier in FSX than other FlightSimulators. But i'll give my best to make the 777. Like many other FS-Users i will no more get any Addons that are declared as "realistic" and than, when i bought someone, i have to find out that there are many missing features or, in the worst case, completely Errors in difference to the real Thing.

loubetti

To do the FBW realistically is not as easy as you might think, as we've been working on it for months for our upcoming A320.

Anyway, good luck with the 777, and if you are ever interested in some other FS programming challenges, send me an e-mail, as we're always looking for talent.

If my name is not familiar, think DreamFleet / Reality XP / Airliner XP.

loubetti(at)earthlink.net

Sven Goericke

Lou,

of course I know who you are (and at this Point, thx for the great 727). I'll contact you soon. But (a little bit offtopic at this point), before i have startet the 777 Project a was working on a 707. As i heard about the DF DC-8 i stopped this Project as both Airplanes IMO are very similar. And, as there are most of Boeing Airliners are developed by other Teams or Companies the 777 seems to be the last one for me. I know, there are PSS and Feelthere 777's but they are not this one i want to have :-).

Regards
Sven

HSLD

For building a simulation of the 777, I personally wouldn't worry too much about TRS vs. tradition elevator feel - the net effect is the same. The yoke will have a "neutral" feel to it when trimmed.

On the other hand, the envelope protections like underspeed, overspeed and auto-throttle "wake-up" would be a very good thing to simulate.