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-   -   Piaggio Avanti Icing Question (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/technical/21846-piaggio-avanti-icing-question.html)

j3gibbon 02-05-2008 06:53 AM

The thought process behind the lack of tail anti ice is that the wings will pick it up first (larger X section) and by the time those pick up enough for the tail to start having problems you arent' flying anymore.

NASA does have a nice video on tail plain icing (normally part of their complete video) and recovering from it, very interesting

detpilot 02-05-2008 08:14 AM


The thought process behind the lack of tail anti ice is that the wings will pick it up first (larger X section) and by the time those pick up enough for the tail to start having problems you arent' flying anymore.
But that doesn't make sense, if the wings are heated then they won't pick up ice. The tail still will. And I always though Icing and tail stalls were pretty critical issues, but my guess was that it had something to do with the fact that the Avanti's tail produces positive, not negative, lift.

iflyabeech 02-05-2008 10:25 AM


Originally Posted by j3gibbon (Post 314407)
The thought process behind the lack of tail anti ice is that the wings will pick it up first (larger X section) and by the time those pick up enough for the tail to start having problems you arent' flying anymore.

NASA does have a nice video on tail plain icing (normally part of their complete video) and recovering from it, very interesting

Not really....Thin airfoils accrete ice faster than thicker airfoils. Its in the nasa tailplane icing video even!

Ewfflyer 02-05-2008 11:15 AM


Originally Posted by iflyabeech (Post 314536)
Not really....Thin airfoils accrete ice faster than thicker airfoils. Its in the nasa tailplane icing video even!

Bingo, this is true. I think it's not as much as it picks' up more, but the effects are more detrimental with X-amount of ice on a thin airfoil vs that of a thicker airfoil. Shape, size, AoA, all contribute. Fly a Baron or a twin-Cessna, and you learn to respect tail-icing!(Or you should learn it quick!)

sharkbait 02-10-2008 12:42 PM

Don't forget it is a 3-lifting surface design with the fuselage picking up 20% of the weight. The tail has almost no load--less drag--more speed. No de/anti ice on the tail because Piaggio says it doesn't need it.:eek: Rumor is that the test pilots strapped some 2X4's on the tail and flew it around. Glad I wasn't picking straws that day!

Kind of a crazy system but best I can figure is that they didn't want bleed air in a composite nacelle. Props are heated by the exhaust but the POH says to bring them up to 2000 RPM for icing conditions.

What I want to know is why it is so noisy outside compared to the Starship? I saw one the other day in TPA and it was MUCH quieter...

402DRVR 02-10-2008 05:13 PM

Actually when they certified the aircraft apparently what they had to do was strap some 2 x 4 s the the tail section in order to simulate a large ice buildup. The aircraft suffered no ill effects in aerodynamics as a result. This is why it can fly in ice with no ise protection on the tail.

It does build up pretty good on the tail when you are in the ice for awhile.


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