Eros Oxygen Mask Question
 

:confused: If the eros quick don masks are certified to 41,000', what good would it do if you flew above FL410. For instance, The Eros mask is certified to 41,000', many aircraft have these installed and fly above FL410, such as B757, Gulfstreams, Westwinds, Astra's etc. If you were cruising at say FL450, would you be playing Russian roulette or am I missing something.
Any help would be appreciated...

Some quick checks shows that there are various models of masks and some are certified for higher altitudes. Thus.. if one is to be safe and legal, you would have to have a mask that is certified for the max altitude you would fly at.

Not Russian roulette but just not wise and probably not legal.

Fact is, that above about 35,000, regardless of the type of mask you wear, you're playing russian roulette. Given considerations towards time of useful consciousness, any high altitude flying (regardless of type mask) is potentially dangerous.

They key thing to point out is risk management. Fortunately, the odds of having a decompression are low, in fact, the most likely reason for pressurization problems any more (modern equipment) are pilot error as opposed to mechanical failure. Based on the odds, we accept that risk.

Second, the altitude rating for masks is for continuous use. I don't know about you, but if I have a decompression at FL450, I'm not going to stay there and suck O2... I'm coming down, and in a hurry.

Thanks, I misunderstood the meaning of what certified stands for and how it's applied.

No problem. FWIW, although the crew O2 masks are certified to higher altitudes, the little drop down masks in the back are certified for much lower. 25,000 IIRC.

I believe the reason is based on the FAA regulation that specifies above FL410 one pilot must be wearing a mask. See (C2),(1), (a) below.. written by lawyers so you may need to re-read it a few times.

Sec. 121.333 — Supplemental oxygen for emergency descent and for first aid; turbine engine powered airplanes with pressurized cabins.

(a) General. When operating a turbine engine powered airplane with a pressurized cabin, the certificate holder shall furnish oxygen and dispensing equipment to comply with paragraphs (b) through (e) of this section in the event of cabin pressurization failure.
(b) Crewmembers. When operating at flight altitudes above 10,000 feet, the certificate holder shall supply enough oxygen to comply with §121.329, but not less than a two-hour supply for each flight crewmember on flight deck duty. The required two hours supply is that quantity of oxygen necessary for a constant rate of descent from the airplane's maximum certificated operating altitude to 10,000 feet in ten minutes and followed by 110 minutes at 10,000 feet. The oxygen required in the event of cabin pressurization failure by §121.337 may be included in determining the supply required for flight crewmembers on flight deck duty.

(c) Use of oxygen masks by flight crewmembers. (1) When operating at flight altitudes above flight level 250, each flight crewmember on flight deck duty must be provided with an oxygen mask so designed that it can be rapidly placed on his face from its ready position, properly secured, sealed, and supplying oxygen upon demand; and so designed that after being placed on the face it does not prevent immediate communication between the flight crewmember and other crewmembers over the airplane intercommunication system. When it is not being used at flight altitudes above flight level 250, the oxygen mask must be kept in condition for ready use and located so as to be[/COLOR] within the immediate reach of the flight crewmember while at his duty station.

(2) When operating at flight altitudes above flight level 250, one pilot at the controls of the airplane shall at all times wear and use an oxygen mask secured, sealed, and supplying oxygen, in accordance with the following:

(i) The one pilot need not wear and use an oxygen mask at or below the following flight levels if each flight crewmember on flight deck duty has a quick-donning type of oxygen mask that the certificate holder has shown can be placed on the face from its ready position, properly secured, sealed, and supplying oxygen upon demand, with one hand and within five seconds:

(A) For airplanes having a passenger seat configuration of more than 30 seats, excluding any required crewmember seat, or a payload capacity of more than 7,500 pounds, at or below flight level 410.

(B) For airplanes having a passenger seat configuration of less than 31 seats, excluding any required crewmember seat, and a payload capacity of 7,500 pounds or less, at or below flight level 350.

(ii) Whenever a quick-donning type of oxygen mask is to be used under this section, the certificate holder shall also show that the mask can be put on without disturbing eye glasses and without delaying the flight crewmember from proceeding with his assigned emergency duties. The oxygen mask after being put on must not prevent immediate communication between the flight crewmember and other crewmembers over the airplane intercommunication system.

(3) Notwithstanding paragraph (c)(2) of this section, if for any reason at any time it is necessary for one pilot to leave his station at the controls of the airplane when operating at flight altitudes above flight level 250, the remaining pilot at the controls shall put on and use his oxygen mask until the other pilot has returned to his duty station.

(4) Before the takeoff of a flight, each flight crewmember shall personally preflight his oxygen equipment to insure that the oxygen mask is functioning, fitted properly, and connected to appropriate supply terminals, and that the oxygen supply and pressure are adequate for use.

Pay careful attention to the wording. The masks are certified to FL410 CABIN Pressure Altitude. They will continue to maintain adequate seal and function properly at or below this altitude.

Can you point out where it says that?

Is that a manufacturer limitation?

The regulation is basically saying:

Anytime you are above FL410 one pilot must be wearing an oxygen mask, even if it is quick donning...

The regulation for oxygen use and TSO for the mask are two completely different things. The mask is certified for use up to FL410 cabin pressure altitude, not aircraft altitude. Unless of course one experiences explosive decompression and “stays” cruising at FL410 (nobody would), there should be no mask functionality issues and the mask should continue to operate as it is designed.

When everything is working fine and you are crusing at FL450 and one crewmember is wearing/using the mask per the regulation, the mask is being used at a cabin altitude of around 8000’ at max “delta P”. Thus well within its design TSO operating parameters.

The LR-45 is certified to FL510 and perfectly legal to operate there. The pilot masks are certified to FL410. This means you better get ur a$$ down fast if u have a pressurization issue above FL410.