Airline Pilot Central Forums

Airline Pilot Central Forums (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/)
-   Technical (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/technical/)
-   -   AAIB Report On Boeing 777-236ER (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/technical/30733-aaib-report-boeing-777-236er.html)

vagabond 09-04-2008 08:58 PM

AAIB Report On Boeing 777-236ER
 
Not sure if this has been posted before. I did try to read the report, but it's too techie for me and I have only a headache to show for it. No comprehension at all. :o


From Associated Press:
DALLAS — U.S. regulators will tell airlines to quickly make changes aimed at preventing ice from building up in fuel lines of Boeing 777s, which British investigators said today probably caused one of the jets to make a jarring emergency landing last January in London.

The Federal Aviation Administration's formal directive by week's end will require changes in the way ground crews prepare planes and pilots fly them in extreme cold weather, FAA spokeswoman Alison Duquette said today.

Currently 777 pilots are required to rev their engines when the fuel temperature falls to 14 degrees Fahrenheit. That would conceivably dislodge any ice that might be in the fuel line.

The FAA directive will apply to more than 50 U.S.-registered Boeing 777s with Rolls Royce engines, mostly operated by American Airlines and Delta Air Lines.

FAA spokesman Les Dorr said the directive is viewed as an interim measure, and Rolls Royce will be expected to make design changes to its engines.

The U.K. Air Accidents Investigation Branch recommended that the FAA and European regulators immediately consider whether the same problem could occur in planes with different engines — a move that could affect many more carriers.

Duquette said, however, that the FAA's initial review "has not revealed the same vulnerability to ice buildup in the fuel lines" of Boeing 777s with different engines.

The report by the British investigators also recommended that regulators review certification requirements to make sure fuel systems can cope with possible ice buildup.

The investigators said water — normally present in aircraft fuel — probably froze in the fuel lines and caused a British Airways jet to lose power and make an emergency landing just inside the Heathrow Airport boundary on Jan. 17. More than a dozen people suffered injuries, including one listed as serious.

The flight from Beijing had been uneventful until its final approach. Just 720 feet above the ground, the jet began losing power in the right engine and, seven seconds later, in the left one, investigators said in a report issued today. They said those events were consistent with a drop in fuel flow.

"Although the exact mechanism in which the ice has caused the restriction is still unknown in detail, it has been proven that ice could cause a restriction in the fuel feed system," the report said. "The risk of recurrence needs to be addressed in the short term whilst the investigation continues."

The report called for the FAA and the European Aviation Safety Agency to work with Boeing and Rolls-Royce to develop measures to reduce the risk of ice forming.



Jim Proulx, a Boeing spokesman, said the company was recommending several procedural changes and a new checklist for operators of 777s with Rolls Royce engines — about 30 percent of the 736 planes in service.

American Airlines operates 47 Boeing 777s with Trent engines. The nation's largest airline had no immediate comment on the British findings.

Delta spokeswoman Betsy Talton said the airline flies 10 777s, all with Trent engines. She said the airline would comply with any safety directive from the FAA.

Boeing's Proulx said 777s with Pratt & Whitney engines are designed differently and do not seem prone to ice buildup. United Airlines flies 52 of those, and Continental Airlines has 20.

The Rolls Royce Trent 800 engines have fuel oil heat exchangers that cool engine lubricating oil and warm fuel to prevent the formation of ice.

However, there are no regulatory requirements that address the possibility of a sudden release of a large amount of ice, which could disrupt fuel flow.

Ice crystals start to form when the fuel temperature dips to 31 to 27 degrees Fahrenheit, but generally remain suspended as discrete particles, the report said. At 0 degrees Fahrenheit, the crystals can stick to each other and form clumps.

The investigators said little is known about the mix of ice crystals and fuel at even colder temperatures — they called for further research.

The fuel temperature during the Beijing-London flight fell to minus-29 degrees Fahrenheit for 80 minutes as the outside air temperature at high altitude dipped to 49-below, investigators said.

The National Transportation Safety Board in Washington said it supported the recommendations made by the British aviation-safety agency. NTSB acting chairman Mark Rosenker said the investigation shows that international cooperation can lead to safety improvements.

This is the AAIB report.

DamonMeyer 09-08-2008 10:39 AM

Why can't the water be sumped out of jet fuel either before or after it's put in the plane...? If that's answered in the AAIB report, just slap me and I'll go read it (as appetizing as it sounds, from Vagabond's description:rolleyes:).

joepilot 09-08-2008 10:57 AM


Originally Posted by DamonMeyer (Post 457999)
Why can't the water be sumped out of jet fuel either before or after it's put in the plane...? If that's answered in the AAIB report, just slap me and I'll go read it (as appetizing as it sounds, from Vagabond's description:rolleyes:).

Water can remain suspended in jet fuel, especially when it is warm. It doesn't seperate out nicely like it does from gasoline. When the fuel gets cold you can get little water ice particles, but the real problem is that when the fuel gets really cold, like -45 to -50 centigrade, the fuel itself can start to freeze. It turns waxy, or like cold grease.

Joe

DamonMeyer 09-08-2008 11:24 AM


Originally Posted by joepilot (Post 458014)
Water can remain suspended in jet fuel, especially when it is warm. It doesn't seperate out nicely like it does from gasoline. When the fuel gets cold you can get little water ice particles, but the real problem is that when the fuel gets really cold, like -45 to -50 centigrade, the fuel itself can start to freeze. It turns waxy, or like cold grease.

Joe

Do they use PRIST in the 777? If so, is there some fuel system design difference in the Boeing that negates it's properties...?

rickair7777 09-08-2008 12:02 PM

I don't think airliners use PRIST.

Bulk fuel freezing is not the problem...the bulk fuel is not allowed to get that cold ( -40 for normal jet A). Fuel recirculation and/or dumping heat from other systems keeps it well above that.

But on long, high-altitude flights fuel can get cold enough to freeze water. Like somebody mentioned, there is always some trace amount of water...unless the fuel is allowed to sit undisturbed for an extended period (days?) the water will not seperate out.

The real issue appears to be a combination of a very long, unusually cold flight, and some design feature of the 777 fuel system which can allow the build-up of suspended ice crystals at a flow-restriction point under certain circumstances.

It's also possible they got fuel with higher-than-normal water content which would have aggravated the siuation.

The 777 has been flying for well over a decade now...I suspect it would take a very precise combination of circumstances to repeat this incident.

joepilot 09-08-2008 12:21 PM

On a long range polar flight, with the OAT below -70 Centigrade, I have seen the fuel temp guage measure below -40 in an outboard tank.

Joe

rickair7777 09-09-2008 04:14 PM


Originally Posted by joepilot (Post 458063)
On a long range polar flight, with the OAT below -70 Centigrade, I have seen the fuel temp guage measure below -40 in an outboard tank.

Joe

There are different vedrsions of jet A for that sort of flying, I assume you use one. Standard domestic Jet A is supposed to gell at -40C.

ryguy 09-09-2008 05:57 PM

They would have been fueled with Jet-A1 in China which has a freeze point around -47C. The problem looks to be that the left over fuel from the aircraft's flight to N. America mixed, causing an overall higher freeze point.

joepilot 09-09-2008 08:16 PM


Originally Posted by rickair7777 (Post 458830)
There are different vedrsions of jet A for that sort of flying, I assume you use one. Standard domestic Jet A is supposed to gell at -40C.

Hi Rick

We use standard Jet A. I agree that the minimum specification fuel freeze (gel) point is -40 C. However most fuel actually exceeds the specification, and freezes at a lower temperature. Prior to each polar flight a sample of the actual fuel boarded is taken to a lab, and the actual freeze (gel) temperature is determined. We then use the actual fuel freeze temp plus 3 degrees C as our in flight fuel temp limit. If fuel temp approaches the limit, it may be necessary to change to a warmer altitude or increase Mach to get a warmer temp.

Joe


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 12:25 AM.


User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.3.0 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Website Copyright ©2000 - 2017 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands