shanKs

Just what I was thinking reading this thread. Is hand flying up to cruise something that people enjoy or just showing off to their flying partner?

Let me know if you're hand flying so I can stay the hell away from you.

USMCFLYR

Be careful in the area formed between lines connecting San Diego CA, Yuma AZ, Las Vegas NV, Fallon NV, Big Sur to Santa Barbara CA and then back to San Diego, CA.

USMCFLYR

Phantom Flyer

I thought the original question was "are you allowed to hand fly above FL290 to cruise or does the autopilot have to be on anytime the aircraft is above FL290 ?"

The answer to the question is that "yes" you are allowed to hand fly the aircraft above FL290. The caveat is that the autopilot must be "operational" to enter RVSM airspace, per the FAR's. Period. Why is the difference between "operational", i.e. (working) and "engaged (on) difficult to grasp. I believe that hand flying an aircraft helps improve one's scan and possibly enhances situational awareness. Others must feel the same way because hand flying an aircraft above FL180 and even up to cruise altitude is not uncommon. The autopilot obviously flies the aircraft much more efficiently than any pilot can and so it is "engaged" in cruise flight.

GRDHound: I don't know "where significant altimeter errors could be a factor comes from". We have three different checks of the altimeters that are performed during the cockpit preflight and prior to takeoff. Any differential over 50' causes a series of MX checks to have to be performed and by the way, the altitude alerter and TCAS cannot be "turned off". I also don't think anyone on this thread was advocating hand flying their aircraft, in cruise flight, in RVSM airspace so don't worry. You're safe above FL290.

G'Day Mates

WEACLRS

Yes. No.

The regulation is 14 CFR 91.180(a)(1) which states the operator and operator's aircraft must comply with the minimum standards of appendix G of part 91.

14 CFR Part 91 Appendix G, section 2 (c) states the aircraft must be equipped with two operational independent altitude measurement systems, at least one automatic altitude control system that will control the aircraft (depending on date of type certification) to either +/- 65 feet or +/- 130. In addition the aircraft must have an altitude alert system that signals an alert when the altitude deviates from selected altitude by more than +/- 200 feet or +/- 300 feet (depending on date of type certification).

Appendix G does not say the "automatic altitude control system" has to be engaged. For my aircraft at my airline the altitude hold and level change functions of at least one autopilot must be functional for RVSM operations. The rest can be MEL'd.

GRDHound

Phantom, First of all let me clarify that I was talking about "cruising" in RVSM without the autopilot on not the climb or descent. I realize the original question referred more to level off but some conversation got started about cruise as well. The only thing the regs say about climb to FL is that if the A/C is equiped with a altitute capture device strong consideration to using the device should be used. My old A/C didn't have one and I hand flew to altitude all the time.
As to the altimeter error comment I am referring to the fact that while the altimeters need to read within 75' (maybe 50' w/ your operator) they are allowed to have a much greater deviation once at theh RVSM cruise altitue. The DOD GP says that altimeters should be within 200" at cruise altitude and FAR 91 apen G gives more confusing but even higher values.
Anyone who might like to cruise around in RVSM without the A/P I couldn't find the FAR/AIM source on line but the DOD GP states
"An automatic altitude-control system shall be
operative and engaged during level cruise, except when
circumstances such as the need to retrim the aircraft or turbulence
require disengagement."

rickair7777

Both airlines I worked for had these RVSM requirements for altimeters:

The meters must be +/- 75' of each other AND the field prior to takeoff.

They must be +/- 200' of each each other in cruise.

You need to keep the airplane +/-300' of assigned ALT.

Phantom Flyer

GRDHound:
I completely agree with your statement and I have never, nor am I aware of a crew that intentionally flew any leg at cruise altitude without the autopilot engaged, other than to disengage and trim at aircraft for a minute or two. Regardless of the regs, it doesn't make any sense when the autopilot is so much more efficient.

The postings have,in my opinion, gotten a little off track in that the original question was whether it was legal to hand fly an aircraft above FL290. BTW, our FAA approved maintenance program requires a maximum deviation of 75' at cruise in RVSM airspace. Just our company requirements, which are more stringent than the FAR's.

Just my two cents....I'm sorry...0.637 cents with the current market value.

G'Day

lear553560ed

Autopilots can break. I brought a plane back with an inop, MEL'd auto pilot. Filed for 430 so as to be out of RVSM airspace, had to climb through RVSM with occasional level of at 360, and 410. ATC was aware of A/C condition. 2 and 1/2 hours of hand flying at 430 is tiring, but a great exercise to practice because you may need to do it one day. By the way, it was a beautiful "severe clear" day with almost no turbulence, I'm not a robot.

Phantom Flyer

This thread has gotten somewhat off track (A track deviation no less...).

I stand on the comments that a number of people have made and my point of reference is FAR Part 121 operations. Yes, we can ferry an aircraft under FAR Part 121 with an autopilot inoperative and in RVSM airspace if necessary. However, that is done with an FAA issued ferry permit, which as I'm sure you know, is only valid from point to point and only one time.

The rest of the comments made are, in my opinion, correct and valid.

Q.E.D. and G'Day Mates

ExperimentalAB

You should never need an excuse to hand-fly in cruise...You're a Pilot, it's an airplane, get over it.

And yes, the reg's allow you to hand-fly in RVSM (in a normal, passenger-carrying capacity) as long as an Autopilot is available.