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Autopilot requirement above FL290

Old 11-21-2008, 07:16 PM
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Default Autopilot requirement above FL290

Are you allowed to hand fly above FL290 to level off or does the autopliot have to be on anytime the aircraft is above FL290?
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Old 11-21-2008, 10:47 PM
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You may handfly, but you have to have an autopilot to fly in rvsm.
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Old 11-22-2008, 07:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Rama View Post
You may handfly, but you have to have an autopilot to fly in rvsm.
Thus, the reason he mentioned "above FL290" twice in his query.

I believe you must have the A/P on in cruise, but you may hand-fly in climb or descent.

I apologize for not having a handy reference...
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Old 11-23-2008, 12:25 PM
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Admittedly, this is from our FOM, but the source document for that is usually the applicable FAR. Notice it mentions both cruise and level changes.

The autopilot must be engaged for
cruise and flight level changes while within
RVSM airspace (except when circumstances
such as the need to retrim the aircraft
or turbulence require
disengagement).
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Old 11-23-2008, 06:02 PM
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I've never heard of a federal regulation that requires an autopilot to be "on", i.e., engaged anytime during a flight regime. Yes, it must be operative to enter RVSM airspace but "operative" and "engaged" are two different things.

I used to hand fly the aircraft (757,767 & 777) up to almost cruise or until I got tired of "hand flying". I think everyone would agree; however, that the autopilot is much more efficient that any pilot no matter how smooth his/her touch is. Besides who wants to hand fly an aircraft when "George" is there for your use ?

If I'm wrong, the Budvar is on me !

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Old 11-23-2008, 09:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Phantom Flyer View Post
I've never heard of a federal regulation that requires an autopilot to be "on", i.e., engaged anytime during a flight regime. Yes, it must be operative to enter RVSM airspace but "operative" and "engaged" are two different things.


If I'm wrong, the Budvar is on me !

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Well, its kind off convoluted, but here goes. Part 91 App G says in part

"Section 3. Operator Authorization

(b)(3) Policies and procedures: An applicant who operates under part 121 or 135 of this chapter or under subpart K of this part must submit RVSM policies and procedures that will enable it to conduct RVSM operations safely.

(c) Validation and Demonstration. In a manner prescribed by the Administrator, the operator must provide evidence that:

(1) It is capable to operate and maintain each aircraft or aircraft group for which it applies for approval to operate in RVSM airspace; and

(2) Each pilot has an adequate knowledge of RVSM requirements, policies, and procedures."


So basically, as I read it, if you are approved to file RVSM, your carrier has submitted policies and procedures to the Feds.

If the RVSM policies of the operator require an autopilot to be engaged, and it is approved after being submitted per App G (b)(3), it becomes part the regs, in as much as your Ops Specs are considered regs. I don't know what your carrier's policies are, but mine say at least one must be engaged during cruise or level change in RVSM. Ergo, I make sure my hand-flying FOs slap George on well before FL290. If your carrier doesn't have this policy, go for it.

On the other hand, being the US government, they are way too bizarre to actually state use of the mandatory autopilot is required. I searched the FAR and AIM and couldn't find anything saying that. They all mention the altitude hold requirements and possible penalties for exceeding them (loss of RVSM certification,) but never simply say "use the damn thing."
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Old 11-24-2008, 05:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Phantom Flyer View Post
Yes, it must be operative to enter RVSM airspace but "operative" and "engaged" are two different things.
That's the verbiage used in our FOM as well. One of our "special" captains uses this as an excuse to hand fly in cruise. (He also, on the FOs' legs, likes to point out something outside and then disco the autopilot and silence the aural before it sounds, just to "prove a point" about cockpit vigilance. No, I am not making this up.)
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Old 11-24-2008, 09:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Phantom Flyer View Post
I've never heard of a federal regulation that requires an autopilot to be "on", i.e., engaged anytime during a flight regime. Yes, it must be operative to enter RVSM airspace but "operative" and "engaged" are two different things.

I used to hand fly the aircraft (757,767 & 777) up to almost cruise or until I got tired of "hand flying". I think everyone would agree; however, that the autopilot is much more efficient that any pilot no matter how smooth his/her touch is. Besides who wants to hand fly an aircraft when "George" is there for your use ?

If I'm wrong, the Budvar is on me !

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I agree that RVSM policies require an operable autopilot, but do not require that it be engaged.

I suspect that most 135/121 Op Specs require that it be engaged, and approved Op Specs do have the authority of regulation.
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Old 11-24-2008, 09:20 AM
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Our op specs are straight from the FARs. There is no requirement of the autopilot being on. They do recommend it being on for RNAV SIDS though.

Once I jumpseated on a UAL 777 flight from ORD to LAX and the FO hand flew to altitude and shut the autopilot and auto throttles off over LAS on the descent.
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Old 11-29-2008, 05:02 AM
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I gotta say I was kind of surprised by a lot of the answers here. The FAR may say that the A/P needs to be "operational" but with both the civ and mil units I've flown with that has been taken to me "engaged." What is the point of it being operational if it's not engaged. The whole basis of this reg is the reduced separation of aircraft at high altitudes where significant altimeter error could be a factor. Maybe some people see this wording as a legal loophole to cruise in RVSM with the A/P off but I would say that is undermining the intent of the regulation. Without looking it up and taking the risk of getting corrected I believe the same reg also says you need and "operational" altitude alerter and TCAS. Does that mean you can turn these off as well as long as they work?
If there are some folks out there that feel the burning need to cruise around without the A/P on in there RVSM capable airplane maybe they should do it below 290 and just explain themselve to their higherups I'm sure they'll see the logic.
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