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Originally Posted by captain152
(Post 1492039)
40?! Holy balls! I hope you're VFR |
Originally Posted by ERJF15
(Post 1492037)
In ORD, they'll ask you to join 40 out.
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Originally Posted by USMCFLYR
(Post 1491997)
Originally Posted by Taildragger86
(Post 1491926)
The other day I was flying into iad and told to intercept the localizer close to 30 miles out. I don't fly into there that often. I simply cleaned up the fms, and intercepted in white needles. I figured that intercepting in green would have caused the autopilot to constantly turn back and forth chasing the localizer because we were so far out. My captain told me that technically we have to be in green needles in order to be legal because our instructions were "intercept the localizer." Anyone have any thoughts on the best way to do this next time it comes up with a fed on board?
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Originally Posted by USMCFLYR
(Post 1492035)
ESV's can be extensive if situations are right and there is a need for procedural control out to such a distance. I did a 40 nm localizer approach some time ago at KIAH.
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Originally Posted by Taildragger86
(Post 1492185)
It was runway 1R
LOC IAD does not have an ESV associated with the facility except for the DME. The DME ESV is out to 19nm between 3,000 and 4,800' According to this information it would not be correct for ATC to instruct you to intercept the LOC outside of the standard 18nm service volume. I'll have to ask one of the ATC'ers that I work with about it more on Monday or maybe a controller with local knowledge on the forum will provide some input.
Originally Posted by tomgoodman
(Post 1492211)
As I recall, the LAX 25L localizer was one example of this. You would be cleared to intercept it a long way out, but not to follow the GS until FUELR intersection.
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ESV? Extended service volume?
I can now pick-up DFW's loc's 90+ miles away! From over cotton pick'n FSM!!! |
ATC w/radar can practically ignore NAVAID service volumes (FAAH 7110.65, chapter 4, sec. 1).
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Originally Posted by USMCFLYR
(Post 1492282)
....According to this information it would not be correct for ATC to instruct you to intercept the LOC outside of the standard 18nm service volume....
Originally Posted by EasternATC
(Post 1492532)
ATC w/radar can practically ignore NAVAID service volumes (FAAH 7110.65, chapter 4, sec. 1).
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Originally Posted by nfnsquared
(Post 1493218)
Not true. See below
Yes. ATC can direct an intercept outside of SV, but they remain responsible for monitoring position (and making deviation notifications) until within SV. 4-1-2, note 3. (Pg 184). Tomorrow I'll be asking some of the ATC'ers that I work with to explain this to me further. It sounds more like ATC using radar to guide the aircraft onto a 'fictitious' LOC course. From my perspective - if that LOC signal has not been checked out there it can 't be used - period. If TERPS sent a procedure to me with a LOC fix out at 40nm and there was no ESV request attached - it would be rejected and returned for redesign or request the appropriate ESV - and IF it passed then we would give it to them. |
Originally Posted by USMCFLYR
(Post 1493239)
Yes - I saw the note and looked at the reference.
Tomorrow I'll be asking some of the ATC'ers that I work with to explain this to me further. It sounds more like ATC using radar to guide the aircraft onto a 'fictitious' LOC course. From my perspective - if that LOC signal has not been checked out there it can 't be used - period. If TERPS sent a procedure to me with a LOC fix out at 40nm and there was no ESV request attached - it would be rejected and returned for redesign or request the appropriate ESV - and IF it passed then we would give it to them. |
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