727s rate of climb
 

I used to love flying (as a passenger) in 727s back in the 80s. From what I recall the rate of climb on T/O wasn't all that steep. However a friend of mine in my weekly poker game, a retired UAL captain, claimed that the 727s had one of the best rate of climbs and that it was very powerful. Is that true?

Which type as the best rate of climb? I've always thought that the 757 was a beast and had the best thrust to weight ratio of most airline type planes. But that's just based on casual observation.

Thanks,
James

A 727 with JATO maybe, I'm pretty sure nothing without an ejection seat will out climb a 757. The 72 came with all different thrust engines, some would, at gross, never get any taller than 280. The 100 series had no trouble with 390.

I flew the -200s with dash 15 and 17 motors. While it didn't climb like the Lears I was used to at the time it wasn't horrible either. That is until it was summer, out of Midway, then you just hoped for the best. Cleaned up she did ok, with initial climb rates of 2500+ fpm at heavy weights. FL350 was about all you could hope for at gross, and we had a few with 194k lb takeoff weights.

The 757 was a dream to fly and climbed like a homesick angel, especially after 5 years on the L1011 which was also a fantastic bird but not known for outstanding climbs at high gross weights. It was an honor to have flown her!

I remember talking to some guys who said their company (can't remember which) limited their pitch angle on departure for passenger comfort and they would just clean up early on speed.

Seeing the far end of the runway, up close and personal, at a high rate of speed on a hot summer day in Denver in a fully loaded Tri-Motor with -7's is a unique experience. Nowhere in that experience would I use the word "powerful".

I've left IAH in a grossed out 178k airplane with -9s and still been climbing in Arkansas. And I've ridden in the cockpit of a light Valsan plane and been looking for something to hold on to. Best I can say is it was "stately" in the high twenties and the thirties. But hey, we were doing .82-.85 in the climb.

Why so slow?:D

How could you hear yourself think at .85 (for an extend period).
We once took the ole gal to barber pole at 330, I believe it was .88 and it was deafening.


I spent a one-third of my career in climb in the 72.

I lol'd at this. I will never forget departing out of Denver, in a 727, on hot August afternoon back in the 80s, #@$^$ bricks wondering if the plane would ever get above the tree tops.

Comes down to a lot of factors. But mostly it depends on the motors installed (and, not to be too obvious, how much power you're using). The -17s at 198k GTOW will get you to 310 in anywhere from 140 to 240 miles down range. At 170 GTOW it drops dramatically to about 100-130. If you're in a Super 27 you might as well star your level off at V2, the thing is a beastly airplane with the 217s/219s, and quite efficient if put on the right mission.

Now speaking of coming up on the end of the runway at high speed, my usual flights have one particular stop where (on the -17 motored planes) we must do a Flaps 30*, Max Thrust/Packs Off takeoff. GTOW is 198.0, Runway Limit is 198.3 and Climb is 198.0. For comparison the same thing in the Super 27 can be done at Flaps 20* and reduced power, and you'll still be way under any limits.

They don't call the 727 the "harley" for nothing.

We once made it from SL to FL330 in 11 minutes in an empty -200 with Valsans. She was climbing faster than a homesick angel! The 72 was a fantastic machine!!
fbh

Standard FE question, "How loud do you want to go, Captain?"

Redline is .90, I've run transcon at .885 when the Post Office was buying the fuel.

Never flown the 757 but a KC-135R light on gas is amazing too.

Not an airliner but you could take off on a 5500 foot strip and be above 10k by the end in a Lear 24.

The only thing you had there that was "powerful" was the pucker factor. Did a lead sled (225 w/ -7's) hot, humid out of DCA going south one afternoon. I think we had 500' when we got to the Wilson Bridge.

Had to wait for cooler temps one night out of MDW-LAS with -9's. "V1, Vr...V1...gear up...V2"

Counted sixteen beer bottles on the roof of the porn shop on Cicero Avenue...

All that said, regardless of the engine setup, what a sweet gal to fly! Set her up on a climb and run on speed. And a sweetheart to get a greaser with if you flew her right.

Pan Am or National?

You forgot the N/E [Delta] rockets.

The 757 with two Rolls engines has just about the same thrust as the four R model engines. I flew the R for 5 years and the 75 for 4 years. The 75 had much better performance.

I recall climbing out of Florida in the summer with a full load and taking 40 minutes to reach the lower FL30's.

It was fun though blasting over the employee parking lot at the end of the runway knowing all the car alarms were going off and one or two people may have actually been ducking. The 727 certainly did not leap off the ground.

Best airplane I ever flew!

Methinks they were many of the same airplanes. Pan Am got 'em when they bought up National, then a few years later started the "every hour on the half-hour" DCA-LGA shuttle, which DL eventually acquired.

I remember coming out of Santiago, Chilli, one night in a heavy 72 headed for Campinas. As the S/O I reached up to adjust the EPRs. Captain said they were just fine and don't even think about pulling them back until we cleared the Andes. I never did understand why FedEx didn't put the Valsans down there.

OK... I would love to fly a 72.. Where can I get that opportunity?


Bill

IFL group.

Pretty hard to qualify, being deaf, a drunk and a wife-beater helps a little.

Followed U.S.AIR out of ORD, said to them "I see you have ship 445."[445NE]. Their reply : "We'll get you for this."

Couldn't agree more - beautiful profile, a colorful history, every high-lift device known to man. It'd come down like a stone as well - the World guys who flew the Stars & Stripes run in SE Asia really appreciated that. Anyone who hasn't seen the Last Flight Out of Danang video should take a look on Youtube - a real testament to Boeing sturdiness.

Neither. They were ex-PSA birds that EAL flew on the Shuttle. High density and low power. Great setup...ugh...

They usually weren't bad since the Shuttle only carried a fuel load for a DCA-LGA, LGA-BOS trip or vice versa, and very little if any baggage. That particular night, we were doing DCA-PBI with a -15 bird and it went down with an mechanical...so they gave us a Shuttle bird. The Captain was opposed to it and told System Control it was a bad idea...but the TAC "managers" knew better.

We had weather all along the route that night and because we didn't have offshore gear, the AR's were not an option. So his directive was to keep a close line on the fuel and if we got ANY holding, we were diverting for fuel.

Sure enough, south of JAX we get holding instructions. Nothing in FL was available so off we went to the planned alternate, Nassau.

We landed and gassed up and the agent ran up with papers for us; and the Captain said, "you need to find about 142 hotel rooms right now." The agent wanted to know why and accused the Captain of being a troublemaker.

He smiled...I remember his smile to this day...and said, "no...they cancelled a LGA-PBI flight and put them on the Shuttle to DC to go on this flight. The majority of our passengers are Jewish, it's Passover and the sun sets in one hour. I will not force them to violate their religion because System Control wouldn't listen."

They guy turned grey. And EAL bought the rooms.

I remember when we were still getting brand-new 727s. One former DC-9 CA remarked: "In ground school they told us about this little yellow light that comes on to let you know if you've lost an engine. I knew right then I was going to like this airplane." :)

Truly an incredible machine. If you could see the runway, you could make it.

340 KIAS to 18 dme and land no problem. No jet bridge available? who cares.

American had the APU wired to the TO warning horn, a great idea which should

have been standard.

Why?
The apu would flame out around 18,000 if the F/E didn't shut 'er down.

Or cause the tires to explode!

Actually you get the fire warning first. Don't ask me how I know.

Actually you get whichever of those four happens first.