motormadness

ORD is easy and has some of the best controllers in the business. You're always cleared to land, you don't have to read back instructions as others have said when it gets busy. I really enjoyed being ORD based it was a lot of fun. Worst part about ORD is the way they de-ice. At least they got the jetways back on so you don't get ****ed on while you do your walk.

rickair7777

Yes, good thing. Today I was talking about a similar sitaution that happened on IOE, and the guy was sent home (for good).

Don't pull, push, or turn anything at all unless somebody (or the SOP) told you to.

kfahmi

Thanks for all the advice! Finished my first 3 days, which involved a total of 7 turns in and out of ORD. It was way less intimidating than I'd feared. All the flying was on the United side out of the F gates, so the taxi instructions became pretty predictable. This week it'll be some Eagle flying... And I just got Houston as of 1-31, so by the time I figure out ORD I'll be headed elsewhere. I really appreciate all the advice. Flew with some great IOE captains who took the time to explain how ORD works.

kfahmi

Yeah we did all of our landings on 27R, except for one on 28C. Including one landing on 27R and then a taxi to M20 on the int'l terminal... Must've been a 20 minute taxi!

bruhaha

And even then, when it tells you to, you'll still have a unconscious momentary pause before you lift up that guard to push, pull or whatever - IDG disc, EMERG DEPRES, ADG deploy, APU GEN OFF, GEN 2 OFF, GEN 1 OFF... I've noticed that every-time.

And then you get to an Embraer plane, where it is normal procedure to lift a guard to do normal things, like start an engine... which desensitizes your reluctance to lift guards, or think about what you are really doing.

kfahmi

Well, IOE all done. I don't know what all the fuss regarding ORD is about...it was a pretty straightforward airport to operate out of. Did a total of 12 turns out of ORD, including during the morning/ evening push and during some pretty interesting weather, and had no trouble with taxi instructions.

American Eagle Ops, on the other hand...whole other story. 75 minutes to get gas. 97 minutes in the 32R pad waiting for a gate. Just unreal.

bruhaha

Oh that's normal.... Other airlines like Skywest, and republic are getting priority treatment over Eagle airplanes when it comes to American Eagle operations.

It used to be marginally better when it was just Eagle, but ever since the emphasis has been on the ground handling operation (the last 3 years), it's gone downhill.

It's the way they schedule their ground crews. --- dynamic manning.
They don't have a crew for each gate waiting on the airplanes, they only have crews to work the flights they actually have, and when the crews are done working the flight (i.e. flight blocks out) they get shuttled off to another flight... the problem is that pilots block the flight out to get an on-time or something like de-ice, and upon block out the ground crew gets assigned to work another flight (i.e run to another gate to park it, unload it etc) , but because the flight hasn't physically left yet the ground crew can't leave. - then when the plane finally leaves, pilots for the other flight and ops are screaming at the ground crew for not being there... and it just snowballs from there.

Then when the shift ends, they just walk off, and the supervisors are scrambling to find crews to work the rest of the day's flights, even though the end of the day was at 2300, but it's now 0100 and everything is running late and all the planes are in the penalty boxes and hold pads waiting for gates....

kfahmi

I've never witnessed anything quite like it. SFO, LAX, IAH...all complete dream operations compared to Eagle @ ORD. I did not think such a cluster was possible. We are extremely lucky in SFO, it's all Skywest ground handling and they're totally on it. At least in my very limited experience so far.

You gotta wonder...all the extra fuel burned on the pad, all the extra missed connections that require the company to put up pax, all the furious customers...has GOT to be costing more than what AMR is saving by going with the lowest bidder for ground handling. It's got to.

mrvmo

Good luck…..you will do great…..Just don't ask ORD ground to "say again."

bruhaha

Well LAX, MIA, NYC, ORD, those are all Envoy ground operations, even though they may no longer have a pilot or flight attendant base there any longer. It's all in-house AAG so it doesn't cost them anything. Plus turnover is horrendous.

Pax delays and reaccommodation? Doesn't cost them anything either, because it's all coded to WX, so the airline doesn't owe the pax anything.

About the only thing that is constant - and the thing you need to watch out for as a OAL American Eagle operator - is that the gate and ramp agents are watching your every move, if there is a way to code the delay to you, your flight attendants, your crew... they will do it in a heartbeat. When you show up at the gate and you see the gate agent tic-typing away at the SABRE terminal - they're putting in notes in the GFAR, time you arrived, time you allowed them to start boarding, did you tell them to hold boarding for a maintenance problem, flight attendant(s) flight crew stepped off the aircraft to get food? restroom break? etc... all that goes in the big computer so that management can go back and assign blame for the delay...

They (envoy and AAG management ) play the delay blame game all day long - transferring who's responsible for the delay, but won't do anything to fix the root cause of the delays. It's been that way for years, just more exacerbated with the additional American Eagle branded carriers and a shrinking Envoy flight operation.

Fuel burned on the pad? I don't believe AAG pays for fuel any longer. They've capped that cost so the extra fuel is being paid for by your airline nowadays.