Airline Pilot Central Forums - Canceling IFR to avoid weather

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg Bockelman (Post 1898652)

Joe, as mentioned a couple of times, you could ask for a contact approach and descend to VFR conditions, basically 500 feet below the clouds THEN cancel IFR and go VFR. But you will probably still have to be vectored for sequencing.

If he can do a Contact Approach (I don't believe he's legal to request or commence one since he's not currently clear of clouds, but if he could), why would he want to cancel IFR? What would be gained if you think he'd still have to be vectored for sequencing?

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Quote:

Originally Posted by TonyC (Post 1898679)

Aeronautical Information Manual:

5−5−3. Contact Approach

a. Pilot.

2. By requesting the contact approach, indicates
that the flight is operating clear of clouds,

From the description in the original post, the pilot is not clear of clouds (level at 7,000' with clear below 6,500'), and that's why he's trying to get lower.

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He said he had the airport in sight , the nearby terrain in sight so obviously he was vmc, but wanted to descend below the bases of clouds at his altitude surrounding him.
He could cancel ifr as long as he can maintain vfr requirements from then on.
It's easier to cancel then fly a contact approach, but he could do that but why ? might as well request a visual approach since their are no visibility issues. If he wants that descent right away to prevent entering back into clouds he's gotta cancel or get the approach clearance promptly. Easier on the controller to just cancel.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cloudnine (Post 1898707)

... obviously he was vmc, but wanted to descend below the bases of clouds at his altitude ...

That doesn't make sense. Maybe a review of the definition of VMC would be in order.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by TonyC (Post 1898711)

That doesn't make sense. Maybe a review of the definition of VMC would be in order.
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Say he is in E airspace. He can be flying around at the altitude of a SCT or even BKN layer and still maintain vfr mins 3-152's .... Obviously if he can see the airport and nearby mountains he's not in the clouds (imc)

OP could visually see both the airport and terrain.

He may or may not have been "clear of clouds" per the 500/1000/2000 rules of VFR, but he obviously wasn't *in* the clouds if he could see both the airport and the terrain.

With a contact approach, he could have legally descended below the cloud bases to the runway so long as he was clear of clouds per AIM 5-5-3.

Or he could have requested a descent while maintaining his own terrain and obstruction clearance with the terrain in sight, which the controller may or may not have approved (I never did this on descent, but did this NUMEROUS times when departing under IFR in a previous life).

Or he could cancel VFR, but only if he met the 500/1000/2000 rule.

Or he could have taken a vector across the airport where terrain wasn't a factor, and requested a descent then.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoilerUP (Post 1898723)

He may or may not have been "clear of clouds" ...

That makes a big difference in what he's legal to do. It sounds to me like he's not, or he wouldn't be wanting to descend 500' to where it is clear, and to avoid the bases of the clouds which he reports to be "right at". Maybe he should clarify.

You can be in and out of clouds, see the field, see the terrain, see the other airplane, yada, yada, yada, and still not be VMC.

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What were you flying? If GA or military, yes just F-ing cancel and maintain VFR. Some of these responses are way over thinking this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TonyC (Post 1898679)

Aeronautical Information Manual:

5−5−3. Contact Approach

a. Pilot.

2. By requesting the contact approach, indicates
that the flight is operating clear of clouds,

From the description in the original post, the pilot is not clear of clouds (level at 7,000' with clear below 6,500'), and that's why he's trying to get lower.

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Agreed that the pilot may not be able to maintain VFR conditions at 7,000' as the scenario is stated. However, if the pilot is clear of clouds (in a hole/gap) at the time of request and is able to maintain clear of clouds until descending to beneath the bases, the pilot is legal to request a contact approach. Canceling IFR would be more difficult to legally perform as at that point the pilot would be obligated to maintain VFR clearance distances from clouds, not simply remain outside them. I get the sense that in the scenario this pilot is flying through a SCT or similar type layer and wouldn't be able to maintain VMC for an extended period of time without a descent.

To summarize: As long as the controller approves a contact approach while the aircraft is not inside a cloud, the pilot may descend while maneuvering to remain clear of the clouds.