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-   -   Hand flying a SID...? (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/technical/92241-hand-flying-sid.html)

HIFLYR 01-08-2016 04:43 PM


Originally Posted by 2xAGM114 (Post 2030022)
Discussed with an instructor, issue resolved. As mentioned above, in this particular case it's a conventional SID which does not fall into any of the other categories: RNAV, ODP, SDP, etc. FMS addicts, myself included, may feel obligated to fly the command bars to maintain what the box defines as the ground track, but there is nothing preventing an aircraft from flying raw data to join the first radial. No specific company policy in this case.

While AIM 5-2-10 makes mention on "maintaining lateral ground track" no where is it defined what that is or what the obstacle clearance is on either side of the TERPSed area. If obstacles/terrain were an issue, an ODP would have been used. If the TERPSter had wanted aircraft to fly a specific ground track for another reason, it would have been an RNAV DP.

The fact that the conventional SID can pulled from the database is more of a convenience.

Thanks for the responses. Learning has occurred!

If its a conventional SID then unless something is specified like a speed limit then turns are based on standard rate turns at normal clean up speeds.

HIFLYR 01-08-2016 04:51 PM


Originally Posted by ajcucinella (Post 2039273)
As stated from a few others, flying a SID with or without AP is not stated specifically in the FARs, but may be viewed through company policy. However, I agree with Dreamfighter's statement about using AP to reduce workload. Although hand flying a SID may not be demanding at all; it is important to be efficient by utilizing any and all tools/info. that is accessible. It seems to me that a pilot would become more efficient by monitoring the AP as it progressed through the SID; meanwhile, the pilot could also continue his/her scan on other instruments, to make sure everything is "up to par" and in good condition.

Trust me as a examiner for my airline more hand flying is needed than many will admit. You can be handed the aircraft at any time due to a failure not the time to learn to fly again at altitude and in wx etc. We can also be dispatched without a A/P. No I am not advocating hand flying under super high workload conditions but face it most of the time that is not the case. Simply put hand flying is a perishable skill that we need to keep up.

cencal83406 01-08-2016 05:58 PM


Originally Posted by joepilot (Post 2039853)
I think that you are referring to RVSM airspace, not MNPS.

I have done this, back in the mists of time, and well before RVSM.

Joe

It's a wive's tale that you can't hand fly in RVSM. Don't people read the ACs about these? My company specifically only requires level off and altitude hold be accomplished by the AP.

galaxy flyer 01-08-2016 06:26 PM

Not only can you hand fly in MNPS, you can do it in RVSM, too.

GF

JohnBurke 01-09-2016 08:25 AM


Originally Posted by cencal83406 (Post 2043111)
It's a wive's tale that you can't hand fly in RVSM. Don't people read the ACs about these? My company specifically only requires level off and altitude hold be accomplished by the AP.

If the autopilot is holding altitude for you, what are you doing when you're "hand flying?"

cencal83406 01-09-2016 12:11 PM


Originally Posted by JohnBurke (Post 2043426)
If the autopilot is holding altitude for you, what are you doing when you're "hand flying?"

Climbing or descending? Was this a real question? You fly it to about 1000 feet prior or less depending on rate and call for AP ON before the FD captures...

JohnBurke 01-09-2016 12:32 PM


Originally Posted by cencal83406 (Post 2043598)
Was this a real question?

Did the punctuation not make it so? Or are you asking rhetorically?

cencal83406 01-09-2016 03:22 PM


Originally Posted by JohnBurke (Post 2043613)
Did the punctuation not make it so? Or are you asking rhetorically?

Rhetorically. :) I was a bit incredulous that "climbing/descending" wasn't something you considered.

JohnBurke 01-09-2016 08:49 PM


Originally Posted by cencal83406 (Post 2043712)
Rhetorically. :) I was a bit incredulous that "climbing/descending" wasn't something you considered.

I didn't address it at all. You've no idea what I considered. I addressed your comment only. Read.

cencal83406 01-10-2016 05:11 AM


Originally Posted by JohnBurke (Post 2043884)
I didn't address it at all. You've no idea what I considered. I addressed your comment only. Read.


Why so serious?

You asked "If the autopilot is holding altitude for you, what are you doing when you are "hand flying"?"

The answer to the question what are you doing when hand flying is climbing or descending. If the A/P is holding altitude, you are not hand flying.

Sorry if I didn't make it clear.


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