Company Vibe
05-01-2018, 01:08 PM
#51
New Hire
Joined APC: May 2018
Posts: 5
Thanks Brokepilot2... I can't argue with that assessment. I have been thinking many of the same things. Honestly, its the same when I used to see FixedWing guys come get the helicopter add ons as a CFI. You knew they had an uphill battle and you also knew from seeing there airmanship skills that they could fly an airplane as well as anyone.
05-01-2018, 01:13 PM
#52
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2014
Position: sitting
Posts: 117
Originally Posted by aTl2017
Thanks Brokepilot2... I can't argue with that assessment. I have been thinking many of the same things. Honestly, its the same when I used to see FixedWing guys come get the helicopter add ons as a CFI. You knew they had an uphill battle and you also knew from seeing there airmanship skills that they could fly an airplane as well as anyone.
05-01-2018, 01:21 PM
#53
New Hire
Joined APC: May 2018
Posts: 5
Originally Posted by brokepilot2
I certainly wasn't taking a shot at helo guys. Sorry if it came off that way initially. It can definitely be done, it just takes a lot of work. It doesn't help the way they're doing the actual transition course.
05-02-2018, 08:50 AM
#55
Line Holder
Joined APC: Mar 2016
Posts: 46
Originally Posted by Knobcrk1
This frontier deal might hurt the company because apparently they’re losing a bunch of instructors to it. Also surprisingly many of the senior guys who are lifers have signed up apparently.
05-02-2018, 11:46 AM
#56
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: retired
Posts: 560
[QUOTE=Pilottim79;2584110]
I don't know what he is specifically getting at, but the helo guys, from my understanding, struggle because of lack of airplane experience. I mean they come in with, what? 200 hrs in an airplane and straight to an advanced jet. They need to study harder and put more time in outside of the classroom to succeed. I think that has proven to be fact just due to the washout rate. Nothing against those guys. They are probably all very smart and capable guys, they are just starting from a little bit of a hole.
Sounds like the airlines training department is the weak link here .The military transitions guys to fix wing from rotary all the time with little issues.
Originally Posted by aTl2017
I don't know what he is specifically getting at, but the helo guys, from my understanding, struggle because of lack of airplane experience. I mean they come in with, what? 200 hrs in an airplane and straight to an advanced jet. They need to study harder and put more time in outside of the classroom to succeed. I think that has proven to be fact just due to the washout rate. Nothing against those guys. They are probably all very smart and capable guys, they are just starting from a little bit of a hole.
05-02-2018, 01:55 PM
#57
New Hire
Joined APC: May 2018
Posts: 5
Yeah from what I have heard, the time you put in directly correlates to success rate. Like anything in life. Sounds like if you show up, go through the motions and head back to the hotel early... your odds go off the cliff. Show up early, study as a group, go through flows and systems with the others in the class, and end up back at the room at some point, well you get the point. They are really straight forward about that as well in the recruitment/interview process as well. I'm sure that translates directly into the cockpit flying the line.
05-03-2018, 07:05 AM
#58
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2017
Posts: 570
[QUOTE=Pilottim79;2584110]
I don't know what he is specifically getting at, but the helo guys, from my understanding, struggle because of lack of airplane experience. I mean they come in with, what? 200 hrs in an airplane and straight to an advanced jet. They need to study harder and put more time in outside of the classroom to succeed. I think that has proven to be fact just due to the washout rate. Nothing against those guys. They are probably all very smart and capable guys, they are just starting from a little bit of a hole.
Us rotor pilots are required to have 250PIC fixed wing to start. And all the military rotor pilots have experience with turbine engines, 100% is turbine actually, and max gross weights of 22,000 pounds in the case of the Blackhawk and 50,000 for the Chinook.
So despite our low FW time we do have a lot of experience.
If these military screened, selected, trained, and experienced pilots aren't making it through, maybe there's something wrong with the training program.
Or is the CFI who has 1500 hours in a 172 that much better? Never done that, so really dont know.
I do know we don't fly IFR nearly enough so that is a weak area. And complex SIDs are new, all I had done prior is "fly runway heading to ××× feet, expect radar vectors"
I do know my issue isn't with academics, put in the time and study, you'll be fine. It's procedures that they don't spend enough time teaching.
Originally Posted by aTl2017
I don't know what he is specifically getting at, but the helo guys, from my understanding, struggle because of lack of airplane experience. I mean they come in with, what? 200 hrs in an airplane and straight to an advanced jet. They need to study harder and put more time in outside of the classroom to succeed. I think that has proven to be fact just due to the washout rate. Nothing against those guys. They are probably all very smart and capable guys, they are just starting from a little bit of a hole.
So despite our low FW time we do have a lot of experience.
If these military screened, selected, trained, and experienced pilots aren't making it through, maybe there's something wrong with the training program.
Or is the CFI who has 1500 hours in a 172 that much better? Never done that, so really dont know.
I do know we don't fly IFR nearly enough so that is a weak area. And complex SIDs are new, all I had done prior is "fly runway heading to ××× feet, expect radar vectors"
I do know my issue isn't with academics, put in the time and study, you'll be fine. It's procedures that they don't spend enough time teaching.
05-03-2018, 09:22 AM
#59
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2017
Posts: 1,030
[QUOTE=Taco280AI;2585404]
Us rotor pilots are required to have 250PIC fixed wing to start. And all the military rotor pilots have experience with turbine engines, 100% is turbine actually, and max gross weights of 22,000 pounds in the case of the Blackhawk and 50,000 for the Chinook.
So despite our low FW time we do have a lot of experience.
If these military screened, selected, trained, and experienced pilots aren't making it through, maybe there's something wrong with the training program.
Or is the CFI who has 1500 hours in a 172 that much better? Never done that, so really dont know.
I do know we don't fly IFR nearly enough so that is a weak area. And complex SIDs are new, all I had done prior is "fly runway heading to ××× feet, expect radar vectors"
I do know my issue isn't with academics, put in the time and study, you'll be fine. It's procedures that they don't spend enough time teaching.
With all due respect, your list just shows most likely why helo guys might have a problem in training.
Originally Posted by Pilottim79
Us rotor pilots are required to have 250PIC fixed wing to start. And all the military rotor pilots have experience with turbine engines, 100% is turbine actually, and max gross weights of 22,000 pounds in the case of the Blackhawk and 50,000 for the Chinook.
So despite our low FW time we do have a lot of experience.
If these military screened, selected, trained, and experienced pilots aren't making it through, maybe there's something wrong with the training program.
Or is the CFI who has 1500 hours in a 172 that much better? Never done that, so really dont know.
I do know we don't fly IFR nearly enough so that is a weak area. And complex SIDs are new, all I had done prior is "fly runway heading to ××× feet, expect radar vectors"
I do know my issue isn't with academics, put in the time and study, you'll be fine. It's procedures that they don't spend enough time teaching.
05-03-2018, 12:47 PM
#60
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2018
Position: sideways
Posts: 294
I think helo guys in general have trouble with staying ahead of the plane and the instrument work. Things just happen faster. I noticed same problems in the Air Force when we'd get a C-130 guy and put them in a jet. I suggest the helo guys fly lots of instrument time while they are building the hours.
"Just my 2 cents, cause that's more than the penny for your thoughts"
"Just my 2 cents, cause that's more than the penny for your thoughts"
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