coldpilot

So, heard from a friend today that he busted his checkride on SOP's. He said that he was taught differently than the check airman wanted it done. Is this a common occurence at TSA? Do the Flight Safety instructors just teach you the systems and generic opeartions of the aircraft leaving you to study the company procedures? I just thought that they always trained you the way the company wanted you to fly. Any input from the TSA guys would be appreciated!

rickair7777

That sounds pretty fishy for a 121 operation...usually if there's a procedures discrepency between training and the checkride, the instructor will back you up and argue his point with the examiner.

Although a have heard a few odd things about TSA training, that sounds more like sour grapes than anything else.

oldveedubs

No offense to your friend but if he did everything that he was taught then i find it hard to believe that he failed ONLY because of that.

ExperimentalAB

He wouldn't have failed only on SOP's...

But coming from someone who was in TSA's new-hire training this past winter (and now a certified ship-jumper LoL) I can tell you that those FlightSafety guys trained so much Chautauqua they ended passing it on to some of us (wrong callouts, procedures, etc...). In the end, your friend should have picked up on them and corrected himself...

BTW, what is the current wash-out rate there now?? It was 50% in my class.

NGINEWHOISWHAT

Doesn't seem right, but I've seen wash out rates @ 75%.

Tom

shackone

It's not unusual to have the blame for failure placed anywhere but on the shoulders of the person taking the check. I hear the 'my instructor taught me that' excuse all the time...more often than not, after asking the instructor, I find that not to be the case. No surprise since most of my time is spent with my own students...I recognize BS when I hear it.

Sometimes it is the case. In programs where instructors teach the same jet to different companies who have different procedures, mistakes happen. Those mistakes are usually procedural and seldom, if ever, are significant enough to merit a failure. Such things happen frequently in the checks that I give, and these mistakes are usually left for the debrief or corrected on the spot.

Correct. Every attempt is made to teach the current company procedures as well as how to fly the jet.

Was this a line or sim check?

Was the check airman a FSI instructor or a company pilot? If company, it's not unusual for the sim check to be more oriented to line standards simply for the reason that the company instructor likely has never taught in the sim. Too often, line standards are more demanding that what is seen in the sim...the major example being the tempo of the check...the company pilot may not give the student as much time to set things up as a FSI evaluator might. As a result, the student gets rushed and makes mistakes that may not have otherwise been made.

AV8ER

There is a book called the "SOP". Believe it or not, it has the standard opparating procedures in it...every one of them! Anyone in training should know that book from cover to cover, and if an instructor makes a mistake, pull out that amazing book, and show them. I was lucky and had a TSA instructor, and have heard some stories about the flight safety guys confusing our stuff and chautauquas, but I've never heard of them repeatedly doing it as long as the trainees are smart enough to point it out.

JoeyMeatballs

I think the biggest problems is they are "Flight Safety" instructors from what I hear they could really care less, in-house is so much better, they actually care..............somebody correct me if im wrong I have only dealt with in-house

IndyAir Guy

I was at TSA 8 years ago on the J-41. We had both in House and contracted instructors. It made it more difficult, but not impossible if you were flexible and understanding. 4 out of 16 got busts and 2 of the 4 where sent home. They said this was standard. Then 7 years later 4 out of 20 didnt make it through training for one reason or another (not all forced out) on the 747. These people are very high time guys who have been flying for over 15 years. Makes me believe that either you got it or you dont... either you understand and play the game or you dont.

SabreDriver

25% WTH over, sure looks like these companies do not know how to screen and hire the right people and that costs money, and lots of it. These folks are all supposed to be professional aviators, with current quals and lots of time? That level of attrition should be reserved for basic flight training (read: pre commercial/inst rating) not 121 ops training. JMHO, but your milage may vary...