MavAv8r

I'm going to get ripped on for this, but I don't care. Breezy has asked like 4 times what else would you ask for. All you say is improvements. Do you not understand the question? Language of origin please. Can you use it in a sentence?

What loopholes are you referring too? What improvements do you want over and above a min day, and some better reserve rules.

I'm not saying I'm voting yes or no, but you can't come on and rip something and say "we should get so much more" rabble rabble rabble. Then you are asked what that should be, and your answer is well we should get improvements. What the hell does that even mean? Softer toilet paper on the overnights? Surf n Turf on the flight deck? Free beer on the overnight?

MavAv8r

There we go. Finally someone gets it. I agree 100%. Better utilization even if it's forced on them works for everyone.

Et, that would be an example of "improvements" not just continually saying the word.

CBreezy

I agree with what he's saying, in theory. So, Celeste, are you asking for a min day or a in average day? I think we could ask for a 5 hour min average day but getting something like a 4 to maybe 4.5 min day is all you'd be able to get. In the example you gave, if your 4 day was 7, 6, 7, and 3 the company would be forced to pay an additional 2 hours on an already very good trip. So, we were talking about unintended consequences earlier. What do you think would happen in order to limit soft time payout? That potentially commutable trip is now leaving at 7 am and getting in at 10p. So, would you rather have more commutable trips under a 5 hour average day/4 hour min day or ask for 5 hours and risk losing trip commutability?

MavAv8r

I think that's where a 4.5 min day comes in. I think we are all tired of this trip that goes 7/3/2/7. They seem to be everywhere. Ya sure that's a 19 hour trip, but it could easily be a 23-25 hour trip.

With a 4.5 the company is still going to have as many days where you fly 6 plus hours. If just gets rid of some of these turd days. I could see some sort of a language where if you show after this point on your first day or finish before this point in your last day then that is void. That should really only apply to the first/last day of a commutable trip. Maybe that's where a trip/duty rig comes in?

I think everyone's in agreement that 4 is a little on the low end. If it's not any better than that I can guarantee PBS gets shot down, unless there are MAJOR reserve rule improvements and other scheduling gains.

Case I

So you gotta ask yourself, If the company NEEDS PBS so bad, and has been working on it longer than they were working on this TA, why did they float the TA first? I don't know, but I know they did it with purpose. If you think think the pilot group can keep up with Uncle Hulio, you're kidding yourself. The MEC is a group of pilots that work part time on labor law with no formal training - I'm sure Hulio has mulitple labor attorneys on retainer to help figure out his end. The best we can do is be a step behind. If we take it in the behind now, expecting great things later, it's likely gonna be disappointing. They didn't even have enough sense (the MEC) or respect for the group (the company) to offer a COLA that matches inflation. We are less valued every year...

CBreezy

Have you called up the MEC or your representative and told them how you feel?

MavAv8r

It's easier to whine on the Internet.

etflies

Do you know how to communicate like a professional? I.e. rational discussion, without sarcasm or talking down to someone? Try it sometime. As far as specific improvements, that's for the company to come up with if they really want PBS to be voted in so bad. PBS will be a bigger benefit to them than it will to the vast majority of the pilot group so let's make sure it's worth our while.

Off the top of my head I'd say improve reserve rules. Increase retirement contributions. All JAs must be agreed to by the pilot. No more taking days off without pilot consent. Increase min days off by one day. No more 5 day reserve blocks. Anything along the lines of appreciable quality of life improvements. I really don't care, the company wants it more than we do so let them sell it to us. In the mean time, we should be pushing for as many improvements as we can with this extension rather than shrugging our collective shoulders and leaving goods on the table so to speak and kicking that can down the road to the PBS discussion.

Wilson03

When does voting start to happen?

CBreezy

Once again, have you talked to your reps about your concerns why they unanimously voted for this if, in your opinion, it's terrible. Or, more likely, are you going to vote no and just provide the feedback of "do better."

Some of what etflies says is reasonable but optional junior manning? Why not ask to verify the reserve assignment before accepting it too.