Why are B scales so bad?
#31
#32
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,262
The AA B-scale was for ALL airplanes, correct?
If all RJ flying is brought back in-house on the same seniority list, with a flow straight to the A-scale dependent only on seniority, would that be acceptable? Keep it exclusively for RJs, protected by whatever is necessary, scope clauses, etc.
If there's confusion with the term B-scale or if the term has too much historical baggage, perhaps rebrand it. The regionals are a defecto B-scale anyways, except with numerous additional disadvantages because they're separate companies and seniority lists.
I wonder why major airlines pilots would not want this. It adds people to the seniority list, which increases job security. Surely getting pushed back into the B-scale wouldn't be as bad as a furlough. Or maybe it's the major airlines that don't want this to happen?
If all RJ flying is brought back in-house on the same seniority list, with a flow straight to the A-scale dependent only on seniority, would that be acceptable? Keep it exclusively for RJs, protected by whatever is necessary, scope clauses, etc.
If there's confusion with the term B-scale or if the term has too much historical baggage, perhaps rebrand it. The regionals are a defecto B-scale anyways, except with numerous additional disadvantages because they're separate companies and seniority lists.
I wonder why major airlines pilots would not want this. It adds people to the seniority list, which increases job security. Surely getting pushed back into the B-scale wouldn't be as bad as a furlough. Or maybe it's the major airlines that don't want this to happen?
As far as bringing the RJ's to the mainline it's not up to pilots. Delta had RJ rates in their pay scales for years. Management did not want the airframes at the mainline. Management controls that not pilots. In the end it's all about cost and management is not willing to pay the increased costs associated with moving all flying to the mainline.
Delta is however now moving a significant amount of RJ flying to the mainline via the 717 and CS100.
#33
Gets Weekends Off
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Joined APC: Mar 2017
Posts: 559
Delta had RJ rates in their pay scales for years. Management did not want the airframes at the mainline. Management controls that not pilots. In the end it's all about cost and management is not willing to pay the increased costs associated with moving all flying to the mainline.
It's really meaningless that DL has RJ rates in some document if they're not willing to fly them in house for those rates. If they're not competitive rates with outsourced RJ flying, having those rates is a moot point.
#34
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Posts: 19,262
How do those DL RJ rates compare to the rates at endeavor?
It's really meaningless that DL has RJ rates in some document if they're not willing to fly them in house for those rates. If they're not competitive rates with outsourced RJ flying, having those rates is a moot point.
It's really meaningless that DL has RJ rates in some document if they're not willing to fly them in house for those rates. If they're not competitive rates with outsourced RJ flying, having those rates is a moot point.
#35
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Joined APC: Mar 2017
Posts: 559
CA rates were under a 100 an hour. You seem to be under the mistaken approach mpression that pilots control the seniority list and fleet makeup. Both are management functions. Management at any mainline airline could and can place RJ's at their airlines tomorrow if they want. Pilots would have no say in that choice.
And pilots do have a say, indirectly. If they decide to keep rates as high as they're right now, effectively they're saying no.
#36
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Joined APC: Feb 2008
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The rates went up substantially with the new contract. They were very low for a long time.
#37
my guess is no wage is low enough for Delta or any airline. The mgt structure likes outsourcing and whipsawing labor groups. If all flying was in house this would not be possible.
#38
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Joined APC: Sep 2017
Position: Boeing voice activated systems and ACARS commander
Posts: 442
Unions in general are constantly waging their own internal wars to keep their pilots "unified". I worked for an airline that has not only B-scales, but C scales, and D scales. The infighting and chaos that exists within the union from this concept is a cancer that no labor group can fight. B-Scales and the like MUST be prevented and stopped in order to keep any semblance of unity, and as a result, bargaining power and leverage. You must look long term when it comes to this. I promise you that your career will be much better in the long run if you can prevent it. Like so many things in life, it pays to be tough short term, to have it good long term.
#39
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Joined APC: Sep 2017
Position: Boeing voice activated systems and ACARS commander
Posts: 442
Flying the Line Vol. l and ll.
Hard Landing by Thomas Petzinger, Jr.
Confessions of a Union Buster by Martin J. Levitt. Don't buy this book. It will benefit the dead bastards estate. It will be available at most libraries. My be some vids on YouTube.
Read these and if you comprehend you will only be fooled in the future if you choose to be fooled.
Last edited by PowderFinger; 03-30-2018 at 01:34 PM. Reason: I'm not and engrish major
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