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Why are B scales so bad?

Old 03-31-2018, 05:32 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by da42pilot View Post
The AA B-scale was for ALL airplanes, correct?

If all RJ flying is brought back in-house on the same seniority list, with a flow straight to the A-scale dependent only on seniority, would that be acceptable? Keep it exclusively for RJs, protected by whatever is necessary, scope clauses, etc.

If there's confusion with the term B-scale or if the term has too much historical baggage, perhaps rebrand it. The regionals are a defecto B-scale anyways, except with numerous additional disadvantages because they're separate companies and seniority lists.

I wonder why major airlines pilots would not want this. It adds people to the seniority list, which increases job security. Surely getting pushed back into the B-scale wouldn't be as bad as a furlough. Or maybe it's the major airlines that don't want this to happen?
Most major airline pilots would be fine with it. There are however three issues.
First most regional airlines when actual discussion occurred on the subject stated very clearly they would not accept being stapled to the bottom of the list. Comair is a prime example of this.
The second issue is unions do not control seniority lists. They have no right to remove or add anyone to a list. Management controls the seniority lists and to state they are against the idea is a huge understatement.
The third issue is a union has a legal duty to represent all members equally. Regardless of what is said prior to merging a regional airline to a major airline list about pay before the ink is dry on the combined list the DFR lawsuits would start flying. It would be a legal mess and nightmare for the union.
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Old 05-16-2018, 06:53 PM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by sailingfun View Post
Most major airline pilots would be fine with it. There are however three issues.
First most regional airlines when actual discussion occurred on the subject stated very clearly they would not accept being stapled to the bottom of the list. Comair is a prime example of this.
The second issue is unions do not control seniority lists. They have no right to remove or add anyone to a list. Management controls the seniority lists and to state they are against the idea is a huge understatement.
The third issue is a union has a legal duty to represent all members equally. Regardless of what is said prior to merging a regional airline to a major airline list about pay before the ink is dry on the combined list the DFR lawsuits would start flying. It would be a legal mess and nightmare for the union.
Sailingfun, you sure like that ALPA koolaid....

1. Neither ASA nor CMR demanded "date of hire" as the Delta MEC lied about. We simply asked that ALPA merger policy be used. We are all ALPA members aren't we? Shouldn't ALPA merger policy be used?

2. This is simply DALPA spin. Everything is negotiable. On the AA property, every Envoy, PDT, and PSA pilot flows to AA without any other hoops. You have Delta pilots who were turned downed by Delta. You have retirees who hired on at Southern flying the Metro. The DALPA spin machine is fun to watch. I enjoy the Council 44 antics especially....You Deltoids hate that a real union person from NWA was elected MEC Chairman.

3. More BS....Yes ALPA has not treated the regionals equally...Everyone but you and a few other will acknowledge that. It's obvious to everyone. I think United is going to "crack the code" while you double breasted folks keep on your talking points...
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Old 05-17-2018, 01:37 PM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by JoeMerchant View Post
Sailingfun, you sure like that ALPA koolaid....

1. Neither ASA nor CMR demanded "date of hire" as the Delta MEC lied about. We simply asked that ALPA merger policy be used. We are all ALPA members aren't we? Shouldn't ALPA merger policy be used?

2. This is simply DALPA spin. Everything is negotiable. On the AA property, every Envoy, PDT, and PSA pilot flows to AA without any other hoops. You have Delta pilots who were turned downed by Delta. You have retirees who hired on at Southern flying the Metro. The DALPA spin machine is fun to watch. I enjoy the Council 44 antics especially....You Deltoids hate that a real union person from NWA was elected MEC Chairman.

3. More BS....Yes ALPA has not treated the regionals equally...Everyone but you and a few other will acknowledge that. It's obvious to everyone. I think United is going to "crack the code" while you double breasted folks keep on your talking points...
CMR unequivocally stated they would demand ALPA merger policy be used and would seek DOH. You are correct that was their right under ALPA rules. It validates exactly what I posted. Regional pilots would not accept a staple! Delta pilots were also fully within their rights to not support CMR’s position asking them to push for a merger. You omit that many airlines reach pre nuptial agreements. Had Comair done as the OP posts and offered a prenuptial agreement there would have been far more support from DALPA.
It was all simply a academic exercise anyway as Delta management was never going to merge the airlines regardless of union thoughts or wishes.
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