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Old 07-11-2018, 09:46 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by GogglesPisano View Post
Still haven’t answered the Netjets vs corporate pilot pay disparity. Or legacy vs corporate pay. Or why no pilot group has ever voted out a union without replacing it with another.
Because it's irrelevant.
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Old 07-11-2018, 11:00 AM   #42
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Because it's irrelevant.
How is the fact that union pilots make more than non-union pilots for a given set of circumstances irrelevant — unless you’re not willing to come to grips with reality due to ideology.
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Old 07-11-2018, 12:13 PM   #43
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How is the fact that union pilots make more than non-union pilots for a given set of circumstances irrelevant — unless you’re not willing to come to grips with reality due to ideology.
Not in all cases, you picked one example. I picked another.
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Old 07-11-2018, 06:54 PM   #44
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Not in all cases, you picked one example. I picked another.
I laid out several examples. You laid out the fact that regional pilot pay has increased due to market forces -- of course it has. Collective bargaining can only go so far.

But examined over a wide array, it's obvious that pilots that bargain collectively will make more than their peers in similar aircraft/business models. Well, obvious to most.
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Old 07-11-2018, 07:14 PM   #45
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Most people born on third base grow up thinking they actually hit a triple.
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Old 07-11-2018, 08:09 PM   #46
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Most people born on third base grow up thinking they actually hit a triple.
And many people who strike out think they deserve third base anyway.
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Old 07-12-2018, 02:13 AM   #47
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I laid out several examples. You laid out the fact that regional pilot pay has increased due to market forces -- of course it has. Collective bargaining can only go so far.

But examined over a wide array, it's obvious that pilots that bargain collectively will make more than their peers in similar aircraft/business models. Well, obvious to most.
Googles.....once ones world view morphs into an ideology they are impervious to facts and reason....trying to modify someones alternate reality once they go down that rabbit hole is basically impossible.
For those who have more nuance, thanks for the defense of trade unions.
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Old 07-12-2018, 06:35 AM   #48
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Googles.....once ones world view morphs into an ideology they are impervious to facts and reason....trying to modify someones alternate reality once they go down that rabbit hole is basically impossible.
For those who have more nuance, thanks for the defense of trade unions.
You are absolutely correct. Thanks for saving me from wasting more time here.
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Old Today, 06:16 AM   #49
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I am a non-member. Every month I calculate my association fee and happily send the check. My EXCO and, when applicable, my Negotiating Committee speak for me and I have no issue with paying my fair share to ensure they continue to do so. You can and should carry your own water.

The fee is about 7% less than full membership dues. That 7% is money that does not go to support the International, which absolutely DOES NOT speak for me.

You should not, either voluntarily or through coercion, support positions with which you disagree. Yes, it is a First Amendment thing.
The 1st Amendment doesn't apply non-government enterprises. So, no, you don't get freedom of speech at work.
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Old Today, 06:18 AM   #50
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SkyWest is by far the best example. They are a non-union pilot group. They do better than almost every ALPA pilot group in the regional category. The only ones doing better from what I see are Endeavor (ALPA) and Republic which is IBT. Many ALPA pilots at regional carriers are making upwards of 20% less than SkyWest pilots.

It can be done and without all the contention, politics, union corruption and Loss of 2% of your pay to a union that spends the money of its members on things pilots don't always support.
Skywest has an above average contract because they have to. If they didn't, their pilots would vote in a union.
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