[Right to Work Lawsuit Related to Aviation]
#11
Banned
Joined APC: Jan 2019
Posts: 408
Unions are necessary in the aviation industry. With no union, you’re at the mercy of a corporation and as Pilot A no way to show you’re better than Pilot B. Hence the seniority system.
Every other industry, unions are garbage. I worked as an electrician for a non-union company and by default was involved with the IBEW. I’ve dealt with all the harassment and I’ve come to one conclusion... the union electricians are the most brain dead, laziest workers out there. People join the industry knowing this and realize it’s easy pay and benefits. With my hard work and dedication to the company I’ve been at, my salary and benefits far exceeded what the union offered due to my individual discipline.
The truth is, ALL unions are just corrupt businesses inside of another business. Do some research on any .gov websites. Why are my union dues to ALPA or people represented by IBT going to the Democrat political party?? I don’t favor either party, but would like some transparency and a choice where my money is going. This is just one of many examples of the corruption.
Every other industry, unions are garbage. I worked as an electrician for a non-union company and by default was involved with the IBEW. I’ve dealt with all the harassment and I’ve come to one conclusion... the union electricians are the most brain dead, laziest workers out there. People join the industry knowing this and realize it’s easy pay and benefits. With my hard work and dedication to the company I’ve been at, my salary and benefits far exceeded what the union offered due to my individual discipline.
The truth is, ALL unions are just corrupt businesses inside of another business. Do some research on any .gov websites. Why are my union dues to ALPA or people represented by IBT going to the Democrat political party?? I don’t favor either party, but would like some transparency and a choice where my money is going. This is just one of many examples of the corruption.
#12
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2017
Posts: 273
Unions are necessary in the aviation industry. With no union, you’re at the mercy of a corporation and as Pilot A no way to show you’re better than Pilot B. Hence the seniority system.
Every other industry, unions are garbage. I worked as an electrician for a non-union company and by default was involved with the IBEW. I’ve dealt with all the harassment and I’ve come to one conclusion... the union electricians are the most brain dead, laziest workers out there. People join the industry knowing this and realize it’s easy pay and benefits. With my hard work and dedication to the company I’ve been at, my salary and benefits far exceeded what the union offered due to my individual discipline.
The truth is, ALL unions are just corrupt businesses inside of another business. Do some research on any .gov websites. Why are my union dues to ALPA or people represented by IBT going to the Democrat political party?? I don’t favor either party, but would like some transparency and a choice where my money is going. This is just one of many examples of the corruption.
Every other industry, unions are garbage. I worked as an electrician for a non-union company and by default was involved with the IBEW. I’ve dealt with all the harassment and I’ve come to one conclusion... the union electricians are the most brain dead, laziest workers out there. People join the industry knowing this and realize it’s easy pay and benefits. With my hard work and dedication to the company I’ve been at, my salary and benefits far exceeded what the union offered due to my individual discipline.
The truth is, ALL unions are just corrupt businesses inside of another business. Do some research on any .gov websites. Why are my union dues to ALPA or people represented by IBT going to the Democrat political party?? I don’t favor either party, but would like some transparency and a choice where my money is going. This is just one of many examples of the corruption.
#13
There may be a difference here in the way public sector unions and airline unions were created. Public Sector Unions were allowed by executive order.
Fifty years ago, on January 17, 1962, Federal employees first obtained the right to engage in collective bargaining through labor organizations when President John F. Kennedy issued Executive Order 10988, "Employee-Management Cooperation in the Federal Sector." Executive Order 10988 issued as result of the findings of the Task Force on Employee-Management Relations in the Federal Service, which was created by a memorandum issued to all executive department and agency heads by President Kennedy on June 22, 1961. In this memorandum the President noted that, "The participation of employees in the formation and implementation of employee policy and procedures affecting them contributes to the effective conduct of public business," and that this participation should be extended to representatives of employees and employee organizations.
The Railway Labor Act of 1926 created the NMB and set up the terms and conditions of unionization of the Railroad industry. The airline industry was added to this by an act of congress under the FDR administration.
The Supreme Court rules on the legality of Laws passed by congress and the RLA will be 100 years old in 7 years. There is a ton of precedent that holds that non-members must pay an agency fee to their respective union. The Supreme Court would have to find a way to overturn decades of their own precedent to undue this. I don't think it will happen.
One of the issues of the Public Sector was that it was not an act of congress but an executive order. It does not have the exact same standing as a law created by congress.
Fifty years ago, on January 17, 1962, Federal employees first obtained the right to engage in collective bargaining through labor organizations when President John F. Kennedy issued Executive Order 10988, "Employee-Management Cooperation in the Federal Sector." Executive Order 10988 issued as result of the findings of the Task Force on Employee-Management Relations in the Federal Service, which was created by a memorandum issued to all executive department and agency heads by President Kennedy on June 22, 1961. In this memorandum the President noted that, "The participation of employees in the formation and implementation of employee policy and procedures affecting them contributes to the effective conduct of public business," and that this participation should be extended to representatives of employees and employee organizations.
The Railway Labor Act of 1926 created the NMB and set up the terms and conditions of unionization of the Railroad industry. The airline industry was added to this by an act of congress under the FDR administration.
The Supreme Court rules on the legality of Laws passed by congress and the RLA will be 100 years old in 7 years. There is a ton of precedent that holds that non-members must pay an agency fee to their respective union. The Supreme Court would have to find a way to overturn decades of their own precedent to undue this. I don't think it will happen.
One of the issues of the Public Sector was that it was not an act of congress but an executive order. It does not have the exact same standing as a law created by congress.
#14
What he said, public vs. private sector is apples to oranges, and the private precedent is very well set. Fortunately we are not subject to random states' peculiar preferences.
Even for management, striking out parts of the RLA would open big cans of worms... it might open the RLA itself to amendment, then you get a regime change in washington and the process takes a hard left and goes horribly wrong (from management's perspective, although that could cut either way depending on the timing).
Both sides seem to prefer the devil they know with respect to RLA.
Even for management, striking out parts of the RLA would open big cans of worms... it might open the RLA itself to amendment, then you get a regime change in washington and the process takes a hard left and goes horribly wrong (from management's perspective, although that could cut either way depending on the timing).
Both sides seem to prefer the devil they know with respect to RLA.
#15
New Hire
Joined APC: Nov 2017
Posts: 1
The truth is, ALL unions are just corrupt businesses inside of another business. Do some research on any .gov websites. Why are my union dues to ALPA or people represented by IBT going to the Democrat political party?? I don’t favor either party, but would like some transparency and a choice where my money is going. This is just one of many examples of the corruption.
"Federal law makes it illegal for ALPA or any other labor organization to make contributions in connection with a federal election from its general treasury. In other words, your dues may not be used to support candidates running for federal office. Failure to comply with this law can result in criminal penalties, including fines and/or imprisonment. ALPA uses only ALPA-PAC funds for our involvement in political activities."
#16
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2015
Position: I got into this business so I wouldn't have to work.
Posts: 1,034
Do your own research. Dues dollars do not go to any candidate or party. ALPA-PAC funds (voluntarily given) do.
"Federal law makes it illegal for ALPA or any other labor organization to make contributions in connection with a federal election from its general treasury. In other words, your dues may not be used to support candidates running for federal office. Failure to comply with this law can result in criminal penalties, including fines and/or imprisonment. ALPA uses only ALPA-PAC funds for our involvement in political activities."
"Federal law makes it illegal for ALPA or any other labor organization to make contributions in connection with a federal election from its general treasury. In other words, your dues may not be used to support candidates running for federal office. Failure to comply with this law can result in criminal penalties, including fines and/or imprisonment. ALPA uses only ALPA-PAC funds for our involvement in political activities."
Nice first post.
I also agree with Rickair7777. Apples to oranges. Don't believe me? You've never seen some of the "couldn't be hired elsewheres" at the TSA. Not the whole organization, but you definitely know what I'm talking about.
#17
Anyway, nothing inherently wrong with unions, they do have a place and provide a good service, but it should be optional, not mandatory.
#18
Do your own research. Dues dollars do not go to any candidate or party. ALPA-PAC funds (voluntarily given) do.
"Federal law makes it illegal for ALPA or any other labor organization to make contributions in connection with a federal election from its general treasury. In other words, your dues may not be used to support candidates running for federal office. Failure to comply with this law can result in criminal penalties, including fines and/or imprisonment. ALPA uses only ALPA-PAC funds for our involvement in political activities."
"Federal law makes it illegal for ALPA or any other labor organization to make contributions in connection with a federal election from its general treasury. In other words, your dues may not be used to support candidates running for federal office. Failure to comply with this law can result in criminal penalties, including fines and/or imprisonment. ALPA uses only ALPA-PAC funds for our involvement in political activities."
In Communications Workers v. Beck, 487 U.S. 735 (1988), the Supreme Court held that a collective-bargaining representative under the NLRA may not charge an objecting nonmember covered by a contractual union-security clause for union activities unrelated to collective bargaining, contract administration or grievance adjustment. In ALPA v. Miller, -- U.S. --, 158 LRRM 2321 (May 26, 1998), the Supreme Court recently held that agency fee objectors under the Railway Labor Act could not be required to exhaust union-established arbitration procedures before bringing their fee disputes to federal court. This Memorandum is intended to provide guidance on the processing of unfair labor practice charges alleging that unions have improperly charged objectors for nonrepresentational activities, in light of ALPA v. Miller.
In California Saw, 320 NLRB 224, 233 (1995), enf'd 133 F.3d 1012 (7th Cir. 1998), the Board held that, "when or before a union seeks to obligate an employee to pay fees and dues under a union-security clause, the union should inform the employee that he has the right to be or remain a nonmember and that nonmembers have the right (1) to object to paying for union activities not germane to the union's duties as bargaining agent and to obtain a reduction in fees for such activities; (2) to be given sufficient information to enable the employee to intelligently decide whether to object; and (3) to be apprised of any internal union procedures for filing objections. If the employee chooses to object, he must be apprised of the percentage of the reduction, the basis for the calculation, and the right to challenge these figures." Thereafter, in United Brotherhood of Carpenters and Joiners of America, Local Union No. 943 (Oklahoma Fixture Co.),1 the Board "made it clear that when a union seeks to require an objecting employee to pay dues under a union security clause, reasonable procedures must be available for filing challenges to the amounts charged."
While the above requirement to have a challenge procedure is based upon the union's duty of fair representation obligation, this requirement has as its genesis the Supreme Court decision in Chicago Teachers Union Local 1 v. Hudson, 475 U.S. 292 (1986). In Hudson, the Court held that first amendment considerations required, inter alia, that a union must give objectors "a reasonably prompt opportunity to challenge the amount of the fee before an impartial decision maker." 475 U.S. at 310. The Court in Hudson, however, did not answer the question of whether agency fee objectors would be required to utilize or exhaust this arbitration remedy before commencing a federal-court action.
In ALPA, the Supreme Court answered the above question and held that agency fee objectors cannot be required to exhaust union arbitration procedures to challenge a union's allocation of its expenditures despite the requirement in Hudson that the union make such an arbitration available to agency fee objectors. The Court found no basis for forcing into arbitration a party who never agreed to submit his claim arising under federal law to such a process.
In California Saw, 320 NLRB 224, 233 (1995), enf'd 133 F.3d 1012 (7th Cir. 1998), the Board held that, "when or before a union seeks to obligate an employee to pay fees and dues under a union-security clause, the union should inform the employee that he has the right to be or remain a nonmember and that nonmembers have the right (1) to object to paying for union activities not germane to the union's duties as bargaining agent and to obtain a reduction in fees for such activities; (2) to be given sufficient information to enable the employee to intelligently decide whether to object; and (3) to be apprised of any internal union procedures for filing objections. If the employee chooses to object, he must be apprised of the percentage of the reduction, the basis for the calculation, and the right to challenge these figures." Thereafter, in United Brotherhood of Carpenters and Joiners of America, Local Union No. 943 (Oklahoma Fixture Co.),1 the Board "made it clear that when a union seeks to require an objecting employee to pay dues under a union security clause, reasonable procedures must be available for filing challenges to the amounts charged."
While the above requirement to have a challenge procedure is based upon the union's duty of fair representation obligation, this requirement has as its genesis the Supreme Court decision in Chicago Teachers Union Local 1 v. Hudson, 475 U.S. 292 (1986). In Hudson, the Court held that first amendment considerations required, inter alia, that a union must give objectors "a reasonably prompt opportunity to challenge the amount of the fee before an impartial decision maker." 475 U.S. at 310. The Court in Hudson, however, did not answer the question of whether agency fee objectors would be required to utilize or exhaust this arbitration remedy before commencing a federal-court action.
In ALPA, the Supreme Court answered the above question and held that agency fee objectors cannot be required to exhaust union arbitration procedures to challenge a union's allocation of its expenditures despite the requirement in Hudson that the union make such an arbitration available to agency fee objectors. The Court found no basis for forcing into arbitration a party who never agreed to submit his claim arising under federal law to such a process.
#19
Even for pilots: there are plenty of non-union positions out there in corporate aviation. Even a few positions at premier airlines on 30th St in MIA.
#20
Banned
Joined APC: Jan 2019
Posts: 408
Do your own research. Dues dollars do not go to any candidate or party. ALPA-PAC funds (voluntarily given) do.
"Federal law makes it illegal for ALPA or any other labor organization to make contributions in connection with a federal election from its general treasury. In other words, your dues may not be used to support candidates running for federal office. Failure to comply with this law can result in criminal penalties, including fines and/or imprisonment. ALPA uses only ALPA-PAC funds for our involvement in political activities."
"Federal law makes it illegal for ALPA or any other labor organization to make contributions in connection with a federal election from its general treasury. In other words, your dues may not be used to support candidates running for federal office. Failure to comply with this law can result in criminal penalties, including fines and/or imprisonment. ALPA uses only ALPA-PAC funds for our involvement in political activities."
I don’t have an issue with my contract, I do have an issue with corruption, but more importantly THEFT from my hard earned paycheck.
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wannabepilot
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11-07-2007 01:52 PM