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Old 09-25-2007, 12:23 PM   #11  
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If you look over the posts. There are far more anti-ALPA posts than positive ALPA posts. But, that might be just biting sarcasm.
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Old 09-25-2007, 02:19 PM   #12  
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I'll speak slowly so that BoilerUp can understand. I was, and continue to be, SCRWDbyMGMT. Now, it seems to me that If I wasn't getting SCRWDbyMGMT then my representative Union would be doing it's job. However, since I am currently being SCRWDbyMGMT, then it seems logical to assume that my representative union is not doing their job. In fact, I know I've read this somewhere, all ALPA pilots (and non-ALPA) have suffered massive career degradation. So, I think it is safe to assume that all ALPA pilots have been SCRWDbyALPA.
Of course, if BoilerUp is happy with the status quo, please pass him another glass of Kool-Aid.
With all due respect, I'd like to throw something in here. If you really want to be SCRWDbyMGMT, throw the union off of the property. Then bend over and get ready to take it. Where I work back in the early 90's we were asked to "Give us just one year to fix all of the problems before you make the decision to unionize. Just one year." We voted the union down giving them that year. We were then bent over (we didn't know it was coming so I guess you could call it a form of financial rape) and worked just as fast and as hard as management could make it happen.

ALPA sure isn't perfect. But having a contract brings me a great deal of comfort. The idea of 4,600 independent contractors working against each other is not appealing at all.
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Old 09-25-2007, 05:18 PM   #13  
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Interesting. The anti alpa post are intelligent and provide facts. The Pro ALPA posts, which are provided to you from paid ALPA employees with your dues are based on fear not on facts.

Bottom line, non alpa carriers are fairing quite well, ie: Southwest, American Airlines, Etc. They will not address this with facts, just fear, because they fear they will lose their cush job that you pay for with you hard earned dues.
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Old 09-25-2007, 05:50 PM   #14  
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You work for NWA, right? Just how powerful do you expect your union to be when it is subject to your company's bankruptcy proceedings? What specifically did you expect from them then and what do you expect from them now? Do you honestly think any other union could have served you better under those circumstances?

True, all ALPA pilots shave suffered massive career degradation...but have all concessionary agreements not been ratified by a majority of the pilots that actually make up ALPA? Is it fair to lay blame solely upon the leadership instead of the pilots that approved those concessionary agreements?

I understand that ALPA is made up of PILOTS, many of whom have unrealistic expectations about collective bargaining and won't take ownership of their own situation. These are often the same who unfairly blame others when they should be shining the spotlight brightly upon themselves and their own pilot group.

No need for biting sarcasm...but if it makes you feel better, by all means go ahead.
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I'm disappointed in ALPA National leadership because they didn't do anything to protect the career progression of younger pilots regarding this change. I shouldn't be surprised, however, that their proposal provided a windfall to older pilots who not only will get another 5 years at the top of their earning potential but benefited from advancement of seniority due to Age 60 retirements for their entire career.

A better solution would have been to require the PIC of all 121 operations to be under the age of 60. Older pilots who wanted or needed to work would get another 5 years, likely at the top of FO pay and seniority, while not impinging on the career progression of younger pilots below them. "

Boiler quotes above

__________________________________

So Boiler, you want it both ways, you want the old out if their Airline was having financial trouble, if their company is doing well, you want them out at 60. That sir, makes you a hypocrite and poster boy with what is wrong with this world today.

You are a selfish, spoiled brat. Your lineage should be ended for the benefit of society.

In your native lingo this means, Your Mama!
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Old 09-25-2007, 06:36 PM   #15  
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Interesting. The anti alpa post are intelligent and provide facts. The Pro ALPA posts, which are provided to you from paid ALPA employees with your dues are based on fear not on facts.

Bottom line, non alpa carriers are fairing quite well, ie: Southwest, American Airlines, Etc. They will not address this with facts, just fear, because they fear they will lose their cush job that you pay for with you hard earned dues.
Interesting. I tell you how I feel (fact) and some poge comes in and says I'm trying to scare you. My post was not pro ALPA. It was pro contract. That lovely little device that provides you with, at the very least, the minimum of protections. And what the poge apparently fails to understand is that my ALPA is not the same as the ALPA on other properties. Each negotiates their own deal.

Bottom line, there is at least one ALPA carrier that is doing OK. It's not perfect, but having experienced the alternative, I'll take our contract in a heartbeat. What each of you supports is your own decision. If that scares you, you should probably seek out professional help. My cush job not withstanding.
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Old 09-25-2007, 06:44 PM   #16  
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Interesting. I tell you how I feel (fact) and some poge comes in and says I'm trying to scare you. My post was not pro ALPA. It was pro contract. That lovely little device that provides you with, at the very least, the minimum of protections. And what the poge apparently fails to understand is that my ALPA is not the same as the ALPA on other properties. Each negotiates their own deal.

Bottom line, there is at least one ALPA carrier that is doing OK. It's not perfect, but having experienced the alternative, I'll take our contract in a heartbeat. What each of you supports is your own decision. If that scares you, you should probably seek out professional help. My cush job not withstanding.
Name of ALPA carrier doing well and justification for using ranger insignia, sir.
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Old 09-25-2007, 06:50 PM   #17  
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IThat lovely little device that provides you with, at the very least, the minimum of protections. And what the poge apparently fails to understand is that my ALPA is not the same as the ALPA on other properties. Each negotiates their own deal.
So your ALPA is ALPA but not other pilots ALPA. Your ALPA can do well but other ALPA pilots ALPA can not.

Thank you for describing ALPA to non ALPA carriers and the general public.
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Old 09-25-2007, 07:04 PM   #18  
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So Boiler, you want it both ways, you want the old out if their Airline was having financial trouble, if their company is doing well, you want them out at 60.
I have never said anything to that effect, and to make that assumption off of those two posts is a STRETCH by even the most active of imaginations.

Quote:
That sir, makes you a hypocrite and poster boy with what is wrong with this world today.
Quote:
You are a selfish, spoiled brat. Your lineage should be ended for the benefit of society.
So....I'm a "spoiled brat", "hypocrite", "poster boy with what is wrong with this world today" simply because my opinions differ from yours? Thanks for the kind words, I'm sure you're nothing but objective in your judgment of my character.

I've always stated that my take on Age 60 is selfish in nature, but it is absolutely no less selfish than those lobbying for a change who benefited their entire careers from seniority advancement because of Age 60 retirements and who will now enjoy another 5 years at the expense of furloughed pilots, junior pilots, and folks like myself that are young and trying to move up in our careers. Requiring 121 PICs to be under 60 not only provides 5 more years of earning for those who want or need to work longer, it also preserves career advancement for younger pilots.

God forbid there be talk of a workable compromise...

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In your native lingo this means, Your Mama!
"Your mama?" How can a phrase from 1980s pop culture be considered an insult in 2007?
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Old 09-25-2007, 07:08 PM   #19  
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Interesting. The anti alpa post are intelligent and provide facts. The Pro ALPA posts, which are provided to you from paid ALPA employees with your dues are based on fear not on facts.
With all the ad-hominem attacks you're throwing around, this post is rather ironic...because nothing you've posted in this thread is either intelligent or provides facts countering a pro-ALPA argument.
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Old 09-25-2007, 07:10 PM   #20  
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ALPA sure isn't perfect. But having a contract brings me a great deal of comfort. The idea of 4,600 independent contractors working against each other is not appealing at all.
All ALPA carriers are working against each other right now.

Name a ALPA carrier right now who is assisting another ALPA carrier. Name one in the past. You can not.
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