Csy Mon

Troll for sure.
Or incredibly stupid

GogglesPisano

That's the thing. He sound like a millennial "Rand Paul or No one," libertarian that thinks that governments are too big, regulations too cumbersome and markets should be unfettered by outdated notions such as trade unionism.

He is in the wrong profession -- and doesn't even realize it.

He benefits from the countless protections collective bargaining has given this profession, and curses their "outdated methods."

MartinBishop

They are.

I have no problem with collective bargaining and unions, I think they serve a great purpose in a lot of cases. But thuggish tactics (like this) are not acceptable.


However it is unconstitutional for the federal govt to have anything to do with labor, including the NLRB.

On a state level that depends on state Constitutions of course.

It is also antithetical to freedom to be forced to join a union in order to have a job. If an employer wants to only hire from a union that should be the employer's choice. If an employer doesn't want a union at their location that should be their choice too. It's about freedom.

GogglesPisano

.

So a company should be allowed to hire non-union employees, in order to circumvent a CBA?

"Freedom!!!!"*


*in most cases of collective bargaining, it's a euphemism for "race to the bottom."

MartinBishop

No, a company should be held to uphold its agreements. But it shouldn't be forced in to them in the first place.

Molon Labe

Sharpen your shovel MartinBaker you are using up the edge on it fast.

GogglesPisano

Who forces companies into collective bargaining agreements? Who twists their arm?

If joining a union is voluntary, and the company is allowed to hire two sets of workers -- one covered by a negotiated agreement and the other "at will" with reduced pay and benefits -- tell me what you think will happen over time.

Winston

Martin, the collective experience, knowledge, and insight of the pilots you vehemently disagree with on this forum probably runs over a thousand years of professional flying, hundreds of thousands of flight hours, and dozens of drawn out contract negotiations (and a few strikes) resulting in the industry that you very much desire to join today.

I know it's hard for you, because your parents apparently never taught you concepts like humility, wisdom, or apprenticeship, but why don't you just take a moment and TRY to wrap your mind around the concept that you might just not know everything about everything.

This forum has helped many learn, prosper, and achieve their career goals over the years. Listen and learn. You might get a bit further ahead if you talk less and listen more. Even further if you honestly think about the overwhelming preponderance of insight and opinion that counters your point of view.

Here's the deal: You don't have any amazing insight that the world needs to hear IF THEY COULD JUST UNDERSTAND. I know that probably seems silly to you, but it is the truth.

And to relate it to perhaps a more self-interested position for you to comprehend: if you walk in to an interview with the attitude you have displayed here, there is not a major airline hiring department out there who would touch you with a ten foot pole.

baseball

The Union also serves a company interest.

Management is better able to exert control over a labor group through its union. management can better and more efficiently manage labor expectations, and conduct. If there is a bueraocracy in place it can be managed and manipulated. Management would rather negotiate and deal with one labor union and 5 labor representatives then deal with 10,000 employees and 25,000 representatives.

negotiations and agreements are a double edge sword. If management shouldn't be forced into a contract, then neither should labor?? right?

If you answered right, then how do you explain the status quo. That's what happens to a contract when it's time deadline expires. The contract that labor negotiated expired, but labor has to continue to work under the expired terms. The status quo favors management, and it forces labor to work under terms that it doesn't want to.

If you don't want a labor union you should fly corporate or military. The airlines aren't for you.

baseball

Are you an actual part 121 major airline pilot?


If you are an airline pilot, everything you do in the cockpit is everyone else's business. You will be mentored, monitored, and checked, and re-checked. Since you are dependent on other pilots during your apprenticeship your professionalism is everyone's business. If you aren't willing to accept the terms to which the career and the career path are founded upon, then this isn't for you. I am my brother's keeper. We can't have any pilots off the reservation attempting to negotiate on their own behalf. For one thing it's not legal when a union is on property, and for another things, its unethical.