Originally Posted by KC10 FATboy (Post 603888)

I have two problems with my union flying job.

1. The pay isn't incentive based and I feel like I'm back in the socialist military style of a paycheck -- longevity based. No matter what, it all pays the same....you have no incentive or desire to do a great job other than "its good for the company, its good for you".

A true professional does a good job out of self-pride. Incentives are awesome, but a person who will not perform well without them is a slug. Unions are willing to work with management to create incentive programs. Without unions, your pay might well be tied to your ability to brown-nose your supervisor.

2. I think the unions...breed incompetence ... and in some cases, hide it from management.

Originally Posted by KC10 FATboy (Post 603888)

I have two problems with my union flying job.

1. The pay isn't incentive based and I feel like I'm back in the socialist military style of a paycheck -- longevity based. No matter what, it all pays the same, as long as you are "safe". :( Yes, I understand there could be safety problems tied to incentives, but you have no incentive or desire to do a great job other than "its good for the company, its good for you". And it also seems that many of the union guys breed hatred for management and/or the company itself.

2. I think the unions have done a lot for safety, but I also think they breed incompetence ... and in some cases, hide it from management. My personal story... Flew with a Captain that absolutely scared the living daylights out of me, many times over on a 4-day trip (I will not get into details here). When I went to "pro standards",they were well aware of this guy. However, whenever they talk to this guy, or give him a no-notice eval, he miraculously cleans up his act, does things by the book, and is untouchable. The only way to catch this guy would be to install cameras. Oh wait, can't do that (thanks union). Or perhaps, to secretly have an FO who plays up being a line guy, but is really a check airman. But something tells me the union would have grave issues with that as well. So, this guy gets away with some very very bad stuff.

Originally Posted by FlyingNasaForm (Post 585173)

I'm anti-union only because I believe in the free market....

Originally Posted by steak pilot (Post 604709)

What do unions and the "free market" have to do with each other?

The free maket is letting business take its own course without interfierence from government; supply and demand. It is only a theoretical term, that means no regulation, no subsodization, and no governmental monopiloies.

Steak

Originally Posted by KC10 FATboy (Post 603888)

I have two problems with my union flying job.

1. The pay isn't incentive based and I feel like I'm back in the socialist military style of a paycheck -- longevity based. No matter what, it all pays the same, as long as you are "safe". :( Yes, I understand there could be safety problems tied to incentives, but you have no incentive or desire to do a great job other than "its good for the company, its good for you". And it also seems that many of the union guys breed hatred for management and/or the company itself.

f.

Originally Posted by Airbum (Post 604937)

Incentive pay for what exactly? Although your company pays you they do not certify you. Meaning .... they pay you to follow the rules of the FAA. The FAA is the one who qualifies you for your position and determines if you can continue working. Your job is not rushing to block out on time, it is not to be more concerned with fuel burn then safety, and its not to be concerned with the operating profits of your specific leg. The pilots job is described in the FAR's and I can't find those items in them.

If and when you EVER have a accident or incident one will quickly find out if that on time block out , on time arrive or making the approach work to improve company profits will carry any weight in the investigation. Clarity will quickly arrive as to who has who's back covered.

Work hard for your company, do the right thing. And sometimes that is telling your company no. The union provides protection for the pilot to do what the company really needs him to do.

Originally Posted by KC10 FATboy (Post 605132)

My company trained me and they certified me. The LCA who gave me my initial linecheck is a LCA, who also flies and works for my company. And they keep certifying me by the occasional LCA in the jumpseat.

t.

Originally Posted by Airbum (Post 605190)

Fatboy, the LCA ( Line check airman?) is acting as a representative of FAA. The only authority that dude has was given to him by the FAA and can be taken away by the FAA the minute the FAA thinks he is doing things they don't like.

You where in fact certified by the FAA not XYZ airline. A pilots certificate is issued by the DOT as are any applicable ratings. Nowhere on a ATP certificate does it state the airline for which one is currently working.

Originally Posted by HectorD (Post 605207)

If most airline administrations knew what they where doing, there wouldn't be a need for unions, apparently, that is not the case. ;)