Alpa
 

I was writing this as a reply to a post in another thread when I decided that this would be worthy of its own thread.

Although ALPA is not perfect, I am wanting to defend against a large anti ALPA sentement that I have noticed on this board.

ALPA legal, ALPA Aeromedical, ALPA Safety, etc, etc. Are all there to assist the pilots, and although they are short funded right now the resources are there, and they have always been very prompt about dealing with my petty issues. Its just my two cents but I think most people that have issues with ALPA have never actually spent the time to figure out what exactly ALPA does. Or how the by laws are written. In a lot of respects ALPA nationals hands are tied in local matters because of the autonomy that we as pilots established in the development of the power structure at alpa.

Before bashing ALPA, I would like to encourage anyone to read Flying the line, vol. 1 & 2. and perhaps read over some of the literature on the alpa website, it will give you a greater understanding of what exactly the union does aside from pilot advocacy. Then if you still have negative things to say about alpa, please VOLUNTEER! Get off your tuckus, and fix whatever it is thats bothering you. ALPA is by pilots, for pilots. If your not happy with the way that things are being run, please fix it. Only we have the ability to affect change. Again, I know its not perfect, but it certainly is the best thing out there.

Scheduled With Safety.

In a way I agree. I think a lot of the anti-ALPA sentiment that you see is directed at individual MEC's. I know at Comair, things haven't been so good, other airlines have a different experience. We were furloughed with no mitigation and the MEC was the driving force behind that.... it is a long story that ended in a stalemate, but that was the jist of it. I see ALPA as a necessary evil at some carriers and a great organization at others.

"Schedule with safety, furloughed with no mitigation."
-Diver Driver

I was reading my release by the computer when an FO sounded off about how proud he was to be non-ALPA. His biggest gripes; 1. No ALPA officials came to speak to his new-hire class. 2. Things suck and ALPA has not fixed them.

I did not have time to chat, but if I had been able to;

"I wish you would join ALPA. I have worked in two professions, with and without a union. I have seen how people can be mistreated without union protection. I would not willingly enter that situation again. I have seen how concrete improvements to pay, scheduling, and other conditions of employment have been made by ALPA."

"No one came to speak to your class? Did you try to get hold of any ALPA officers? Did you volunteer to set up a 'meet and greet'. You probably would not believe how much unpaid time and work you MEC and LEC officials do on our behalf. If you see something that these volunteers have missed, lend a hand."

"You have a list of gripes; If ALPA fixed them then you might join up? This attitude is the same as a young man enlisting in the army on 3 September 1945 to help defeat the Japanese. If you want to improve things, take some responsibility, join the union, vote for good officials, volunteer a little time, and help lift the load."

"Lastly, at our airline non-members are charged an administrative fee which is the same as union dues. By not joining, you are not able to vote for union representatives, you cannot influence union policy, and you cannot vote on proposed contracts."

The Dash Whisperer

If someone has an issue with ALPA I would suggest volunteering. You can make a change and seeing that ALPA is based on volunteers that are members "You are ALPA". In my dealings with both my personal issues as well as issues concerning 1300+ pilots I have been given more resources than I knew even existed.

Short funded?!

Should I direct you to the department of labor filing section where you can see how much of yours and my money is funneled out to all sorts of law firms to be deposited as checks in our board of directors pockets?

Or would you like me to point you out to where your officials from your company have signed their own names for taking your money on "non itemized reimbursements"

Or perhaps you would like me to show you the amount of money poured into hotels like Hilton, Doubletree, Hyatt, Wyndhamm etc while you and I stay in Sleep Inns and such....

Surely these are all indicators of short funding.

When our president of the union makes more than the president elect of the United States, I ask questions.

A lot of anti-ALPA sentiment comes from people who have unrealistic expectations of what ALPA can and cannot do (both at the Local & National level), what their 1.95% really buys them, how their own actions influence unity at their Local, and what their responsibilities are in terms of collective bargaining and why its important they live up to them.

At least, those were my observations in a year of ALPA committee work at ARW...

Sir,

Do you realize that these people are giving up their days off, time with their families, important events in their childrens lives (like ball games, recitals, plays, graduations etc), vacations, to volunteer to work for you? And you are going to beguile them a simple hotel room at a decent, not fancy, hotel or food while they are there. Every thing they are given is based off of Conus. And is reasonble, plus they are only allowed to stay in union hotels, and purchase things from US owned and operated locations. Yes it costs a little bit more, but maby just maby its the right thing to do.

As per the tight on cash, ALPA just lost USAirways, one of the biggest carriers that flew there banner, naturally they are going to have to readjust their budget to accomidate this.

As per the law firms,
Alpa employs some of the best aviation law attorneys in the world, and there is a cost to that specialization. If you do not wish to pay for it, then dont goto work for an ALPA carrier, nor be a member. But don't you come crawling to ALPA, when you wake up upside down with jet fuel dripping in your face.


And as per corruption, Maby there is some, maby not. Thats up to us and our MEC to regulate, if it happens, we need to put new people in office. We have that authority, only you can affect change. But you know what, its not nearly as corrupt as the other "options" if any corruption actually exists.

Alpa, it is what it is...

it all depends where your airline sits on the food chain, having experienced this, don't expect much or anything if your on the bottom.

For those that volunteer, I have nothing but a word of thank you. Thank you for trying!

For everybody else, I'm sorry, but maybe employing those expensive lawyers is not working. Maybe its time reassess what ALPA is doing considering not a single ALPA carrier in the last 20 years have reached a good position. Maybe we don't need to be paying those lawyers anymore because obviously we have achived absolutely nothing.

For those of you who are going to tell me that only god knows where we'd be if we didn't continue paying those lawyers I ask you to assess before writing a reply if your company beats you to the absolute minimums that the FARs allow. If it does, then save us both the trouble, ALPA really hasn't achieved anything for you.

And for those of you worried about USAir's paychecks. They seem to be doing just the same if not beter with their own union.... Maybe we should too?

Not exactly...

What passenger carrier, ALPA or non-ALPA, has reached a good position within the last 20 years? Aside from SWA, none.

I do not feel that it is possible to accurately picture where our profession would be without ALPA. It is easy to look back and point out where ALPA may have been wrong. Hindsight is always perfect.

The reason that ALPA cannot instantly achieve all that we would like, lies in the RLA and the inherent advantages it gives to the employer. Couple that with the whacked out conservatives appointed to the federal bench and various Federal labor boards and departments since 1980, and it is easy to see that unions face an uphill fight in this country.

Woha Bessy!

It's not always about pay. What about the bennies?

Let's not forget that ALPA is not just about contracts and grievance representation. ALPA has a lot of good programs. ALPA MED, ALPA Insurance, Accident Assistance Programs, Safety training and development and yes LEGAL REPRESENTATION!

We pay a lot of money but if I have to give up x% so a few pilots that have a screw up get proper representation in court. I will do it.

We're all in this together and my ALPA is strong! That's why we can't get RFPs. Were not giving up ANYTHING, and were too expensive!

With ALPA to back us, and with expensive lawyers I won three grievances last year that with out legal support I would have been about $400 under the table. Considering that I gave about $1000 to ALPA in dues last year; I would say the return on my investment among other fantastic contractural clauses was worth it.

You non union carrers have NO IDEA the oportunities you are missing out on! If you think I'm wrong for feeling the way I do; come talk to me when you screw up, ding a wing, or say the wrong thing to a flight attendant and suddenly find yourself jobless.

Furthermore, ALPA safety has made tremendous strides in aviation safety that everyone benefits from on a daily basis. Asside from just the safety, the pear support organizations such as CIRP, as you stated the legal department, aeromed, dozens of other programs that really assist pilots. I think that most people that do not like alpa dont know what resources are available to them.

ALPA may work for you, but...
 

...ask a former TWA pilot what ALPA did for them and you'd be surprised. It kind of hurts when the Union that's supposed to be supporting you is really trying to pitch itself to the acquiring non-ALPA carrier.

ALPA departments such as Safety, Aeromedical, CIRP, etc, are very worthwhile causes but do not necessarily steer ALPA as an organization. What drives ALPA as an organization is the necessity to recruit as many non-ALPA pilot groups as possible for two important reasons:

1) Increase in revenue due to additional membership.

2) The likelihood of letting an independent union succeed. What message would be sent if a non-ALPA union was able to better represent its membership than what ALPA does? If an ALPA unit was dissatisfied with the representation or (lack of) assistance by National, decertifying ALPA might cross their minds. We've seen it happen already at USAir and Atlas/Polar.

My opinion is that ALPA is at a crossroads when it comes to representing the airline piloting profession. As it's always looking for new membership, how can it represent the current membership in the same ethical capacity? As it's trying to defend the contracts of XYZ Airlines' pilots, how do they not tread all over that very airline's code share partner whom they also happen to represent?

And how should they represent the pilots of an outgoing carrier when absorbed by a non-ALPA carrier? How should they represent the fragmented segment of a carrier being acquired by a non-ALPA carrier?

X

Alpa
 

Some of the support functions are good(medical/legal/accident stuff) but as long as John Prater is President I strongly suggest that you avoid joining. He threw the America West pilots under the bus. We are having to pay dearly for some high-priced legal help to do the job of defending the arbitration.

ALPA national is charged with defending and protecting seniority arbitrations that are conducted under their merger policy. They bailed out when when it mattered most. Our lawsuit against the real men of genious dba USAPA kicks off this week-stay tuned.

The biggest hinderance since 1980 is deregulation. Good luck getting that genie back into the bottle.

ALPA is a perfect concept that does not take into account imperfect realities. We have a liberal government in place....so what's the excuse going to be now?

That Part is Correct
 

I would certainly agree that ALPA has many programs that benefit the rank and file men and women in the cockpit. No doubt about that. Central Air Safety, CIRP, Aeromedical, Security Committees, etc. all provide direct benefit to the folks in the cockpit and are worth your dues dollars.

I spent 7 years volunteering at the LEC/MEC level and 5+ years at ALPA National. It was during that period, particularly at National where my eyes were opened to the waste and true objectives of our national officers, or at least most of them. Research the Dept. of Labor statistics and check out what every employee at ALPA National was paid last year. It's public domain and it will shock you. Then check out the expenses of national officers, the dues money wasted on frivolous dinners and "special events" and your stomach will turn over. Considering the economic conditions of the day and the pay cuts that pilots have endured, you can't help but be disillusioned.

I'm not saying that everyone within the national organization is corrupt, as there are some good, well meaning people.....just not enough of them to offset the greed and hypocrisy of the national officers and leaders.

Glad I'm not paying dues anymore as the glossy magazine really isn't worth it.

G'Luck Mates:)

[QUOTE=X Rated;601141]...ask a former TWA pilot what ALPA did for them and you'd be surprised.

Don't limit yourself to a former TWA pilot. Let's look at the past 20-30 years. Braniff 1, Braniff 2, Eastern, Pan Am, Midway, Usair, Pensions, Stock, Bonds, the age 60 rule that I think most pilots were against, and the most shicking is what was done behind the backs of the TWA pilots.

The volunteers are great, but in todays reality I think pilots would be hard pressed to think of 10 items directly related to ALPA that is or was good for their career, and yet I think they would have no problem finding 10 items that was bad for their career.